1988 B2 Conversion using 2000 Explorer 302

[dSINtia]

That could be a problem then... If the 2000 trans and pre-98 ECUs aren't compatible then using one with a 96-98 wiring harness to fix the PATS issue is a fruitless effort.

I guess what I need to know moving forward is what exactly do I need to buy to either a) make the donor driveline work in the bronco II as is without a new ECU, harness and fuel rail or b) what ECU and harness do I need to buy to eliminate PATS? I'm not against using the donor equipment and buying a tuner to turn PATS off if that is even an option but I don't want to buy a bunch of stuff and then learn the hard way it won't work together.

Sorry for the persistent questions but I'm ready to fire on this deal and want to strike while the iron's hot... thank you in advance guys.

 

[Mac]

You will reuse your Speedo sensor that's in your dummy case, since your still running a cable operated Speedo...
SVT

Would OP be able to convert that 2000 trans to cable operated spedo, stock, I thought signal was from rear end and digital? His is the 2000 4x2 version and not using the B11 dummy case. Seem to remember someone pulling the tailshaft and adding drive gear, provision existing in case to mount VSS or cable mount. Way too many little "got-ya's" mixing years and such.
Dave

 

[dSINtia]

Thanks Dave.

I am keeping tally of all the little issues I expect to deal with. I'm in this one and once I start I have to work through it. I plan to use a 2000 W302 with the GT-40p heads and 4R70W trans, a 96 engine and trans harness, a 97 ECU, and a 97 fuel rail.

I know I'm going to need to swap the fuel rails, re-pin the trans harness, convert to a gear driven speed sensor off the tail shaft, change to a 3-wire CPS, get a new oil sump and bolts and possibly change shift solenoids in the tranny...

I can work through the other little issues but what about the GT-40p heads... will I have clearance issues with my B2 being 2wd. I've heard both... yes and no. I want to try to use the craptastic stock headers... possible???

Keep'em coming guys. Thank you!

Dave

 

[RangerSVT]

Pulling an earlier 2wd tranny from the parts yard might be a better option, it would keep you from having to make the tailshaft mods, the repinning, and possible shift solenoid shuffle. A couple more things to add to your list:
Throttle cable from donor
Power steering pressure hose from 90's 4.0 (will need to straighten hard line out once you get it)
Oil filter relocation kit with 90* block adapter, transdapt part # 1413
Motor mounts, whether plates or convertible mounts, highly recommend the plate
Heater box modification ( some have used a heat gun and remolded, others cut and made panels)

I'll post up more as/if I think of them...

SVT

 

[dSINtia]

You must have a crystal ball... I've been considering doing just that. I imagine I'll be able to find a lower mileage pre-98 trans for not too much cash... especially if I offer mine on swap.

The PS line tip is a good one... I was contemplating making my own. I have access to high pressure hose maker and the some of the material I have is rated to over 4,000 psi (overkill I know) but straightening the 4.0 line should be cake. I'll opt for that...

You guys rock... keep'em coming. I'm taking notes and can't thank you enough!

Dave

 

[RangerSVT]

On SVT I took the explorer ps line and cut off the rack fitting, and had a hydraulic hose shop crimp on a 3/8" inverted flare 90* fitting. On josh's D ranged, I used a 4.0 line and straightened it....

SVT

 

[dSINtia]

Quick question... What are the differences between my 2000 4r70W and the earlier models of the same tranny?

What years would be the most suitable for my setup. I'm thinking 96/97 but then why wouldn't a 4r70 from say 1990 serve the same purpose?

 

[RangerSVT]

The 4R70W started in 96 with the intro of OBD2, prior to that was the aode, prior to that the aod. There were a couple differences between the car 4R70W and the truck version, as well as the earlier and later version. The later version added either an OSS, or output speed sensor, or TSS, turbine speed sensor (input shaft speed sensor). This was done to detect slippage inside the tranny and further improve efficiency. The exact year I'm not sure of, but I believe it was 98. The other difference you know of, the lack of the vss in the tail housing. This is due to the vss in the rear axle housing started double duty as an abs sensor and a vss ( vehicle speed sensor), which was corrected by either the ECU or the abs module, depending on vehicle...

SVT

 

[dSINtia]

That all makes sense. My goal then I think is to work with a 97 ECU, a 96 engine harness, a 2000 302, and a 96 4R70W from either the Explorer or F150.

I'm reading about the GT-40P heads on the 1998+ 302s and whether or not I'll be able to find exhaust headers that can be used in this application (a 2WD B2). I suspect with some modifications the stock Explorer headers should work but I'm concerned about steering box and crossmember clearance issues...

I'm going to snatch the motor and trans out of the donor over the weekend and I suspect once I get eyes on the whole deal I'll be able to make a better call. I plan to pull the motor and trans independently and then I'll go back in for all the computer and wiring... shoulf be fun considering the donor lived in Illinois and is rust and salt covered.

Thanks!

Dave

 

[RangerSVT]

Dave, the stock manifolds will fit. SVT's frame and your B2 frame are very similar up front. The cast manifolds flow better than the tubular manifolds. Your header selection is very limited. I have a set of BBK headers from a mustang that was modified (two of the collector's were beat in to clear steering) but notching of the passenger frame was required to fit. Ford had a set of headers for the explorer, but they've been discontinued, then there's the expensive torque monster headers. They will fit, but run about $800. Because of the spark plug angle on the P heads, header selection is limited...
If your not worried about the donor after you get the parts you need, I highly recommend cutting the front clip off as close to the firewall as possible (see both SVT and my ST build thread, first post on my donor), it makes engine removal much faster and easier...

SVT

 

[dSINtia]

Awesome news. Everytime I start thinking costs are gonna run away on me, you come as the bearer of good news. I have planned to cut the clip all along as the shell is going to be scrapped anyhow.

Ya know I haven't even bothered looking at the headers on the donor and don't know off hand if they are cast or modular... I suspect finding a decent set of cast stock headers may be a bit challenging up with all the sale and snow. I'll brace for the bad news and hope when I get home I see lots of nasty rust on a set of 13 year old cast iron headers.

 

[dangerranger83]

I'm running a set of the tubular explorer manifolds, came with my 5.0 I got, and they fit perfectly. As said the.manifolds do flow better and can be ported a bit for better flow. Only thing I don't like about the tubular ones is they aren't as spark plug wire friendly, but just bought header wrap and will be wrapping the header where the wire chord close or in contact with my current wires then I will be putting my new Ford racing 9mm wires (another freebie) on.

Sent from my rooted SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mac]

I'm running a set of the tubular explorer manifolds, came with my 5.0 I got, and they fit perfectly. As said the.manifolds do flow better and can be ported a bit for better flow. Only thing I don't like about the tubular ones is they aren't as spark plug wire friendly, but just bought header wrap and will be wrapping the header where the wire chord close or in contact with my current wires then I will be putting my new Ford racing 9mm wires (another freebie) on.

Sent from my rooted SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Difference in how well the exhaust fits with the wires is due to the different head designs, Dave (OP) is using the "P" heads that the manifolds were designed for. If you have seen the insides of the tube headers, you'd toss them. Many have used 90 Deg or other angles on the plug boots for more clearance.
Other Dave

 

[dSINtia]

I'm in the donor now... starting with trans and the first thing I noticed was tubular headers. Oh well, on the prowl for a cast set.

I have one point of contention, I think I'm the "other Dave"... you've been around a while.

I'll be checking the trans harness and engine harness today along with the CPS... if they're good I'll shoot ya an email.

Hope you don't get pounded up there GB... saw a forecast for 8"+. Ouch... I'm probably looking at 4-5...

The Real Other Dave

 

[RangerSVT]

.... Dave 1

...Dave 2

There, fixed it...:icon_thumby:

SVT

 

[Mac]

There are several headers on E-Bay but cheaper from Rock-Auto, think the TRS discount is still available with the latest discount code. Runs about $107 for the pair new with some hardware.
Dave of the Nord

 

[dSINtia]

Update 1...

Get under the damn thing and it turns out this thing is a 4wd Explorer. I'm guessing two owners ago, it was striped it down and made to look and run like a 2wd. They even threw a new console trim piece (without the 4wd control) on it. I never got under it and the previous was a 20 year old single mom that no doubt got took to the cleaners on it.

Anyhow, I've got the rear drive shaft out, transfer case dropped, the transmission harness off (it looks good DOTN), transmission cross member out and now I'm pulling the driver side exhaust. I am on of all things the damn 2-bolt start. The previous owner, or some monkey mechanic, rounded off the top mounting bolt.

Are there any tips to rolling the engine over to gain access to all of TC bolts?

 

[RangerSVT]

The 5.0 ex came either 2wd or awd, no dash mounted switch was available. Since your cutting the front clip off, you can pull the motor and trans together. I've pulled motor, trans, and tcase all at once. I've also pulled them with exhaust all the way to the tcase to trans mounting location...

SVT

 

[Mac]

Well, you were going to get another trans anyway. Think you're learning about the intelligence of some of the city people there. I did some digging on your spedo problem. Asked another well known V-8 expert and he said a lot of the Mustangs and other earlier Fords used the VSS from the trans for cruise control at the ECU and a cable for the spedo. Bunch of info:
He can use the VSS from a Cruise Control equipped Fox body, or a '92-ish Ranger.
They had a VSS, with the wiring, and the cable bolted to that.

Any Mustang transmission 98 and older will drive a speedometer cable as long as the VSS unit that you use doesn't have the hole for the speedometer cable plugged up. Again, the 94-98 VSS units are plugged where the cable attaches.

Prior to the addition of mass air, the only EFI cars to use a VSS were cars equipt with cruise control. The mass air cars use the VSS in their programming. You need a speedo cable for a car with cruise and/or from a mass air car (example would be an 89-93). Just make sure you specify whether its an automatic or 5 speed as the cable lengths differ slightly because of how they were ran. AOD cars ran the cable through the hole that the clutch cable would go through on a 5 speed cars. The 5 speed cars ran the cable through a smaller hole that is behind the plenum towards the center of the firewall. There is a rubber plug in this hole on an AOD car.
Dave of the Nord

 

[dSINtia]

You're right... learning a lot. I didn't know they were either 2wd or AWD in 2000... I know now!

I have considered pulling the entire driveline out at once but I do not have the clearance in my relatively small, residential two-car garage so I am stuck parting the trans and engine.

I am really struggling with this dang starter... both bolts looked liked button heads. I got the lower but the top one ain't budging. I pulled the "TC cover plate" off and was able to get to one of the converter nuts but I can't for the life of me figure out how to roll this thing over to get to the other three. Any pointers?

I expected pain and aggravation and I'm getting it but I ain't discouraged... I'm in no hurry, just want to do this thing right.