•  

    Click HERE to join our forum and participate in the discussions.

     

Y-pipe to Manifold Flange Fix


CraigK

New member
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
126
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
1987
Vehicle
Ford
Thought I’d share this with this forum, as it seems to be a somewhat common issue with older RBV’s . . .

The Problem:

The passenger-side exhaust manifold to Y-pipe flange on my 1987 Bronco II 2.9L engine is leaking badly. As in “found dead in vehicle” bad. As I can’t afford to have hundreds of dollars of exhaust work done on this old B2, but can’t continue to drive it with the leak, I needed to find a low cost, do-it-myself fix.

Although the Y-pipe itself still appeared to be intact (no holes), the flange piece had mostly rusted/rotted away, and the flange bolts (what’s left of them) could not be unscrewed (believe me, I tried). The VERY limited access to the flange area compounds the problem. I did NOT want to remove the exhaust manifold itself, as I’m sure that I’d be in even DEEPER crap with broken manifold studs, and I’d still have to get the darn manifold flange bolts out. Also, my solution had to NOT require the use of expensive or esoteric tools, or an external contractor (auto repair shop).



So, I drank beer and thought about it.

Then I drank more beer.

And this is what I came up with . . .

The Solution:

Use of a 2” split flange, coupled with two long stainless steel U-bolts, with access to the area by removing the plastic fenderwell, and removal of the old flange and studs with a good ole’ hacksaw.

Steps

First, I got all the split flange and U-bolt parts together. I bought the 2” split flange at NAPA. They actually have two different types, the type I used being the more expensive (~$13). I also choose to use 1 ¾” stainless steel U-bolts, ~6” length (local hardware store), at about $6 each (the non-SS units were about $2 each). See images.





Then, I modified the split flanges by grinding four notches, two on each side, to fit the U-bolts, such that they would be held in place on the split flange when tightened down. See images.





Then I used a couple of huge gobs of silicone to hold the U-bolts in place, thinking this would be needed. (I eventually had to take one U-bolt out of the silicone goop.) See image.



Then, I jacked up the front right wheel, placed the vehicle safely on a jack, removed the wheel, and removed the plastic fenderwell piece. (Got this access idea from another post on TRS – thanks!) This required removal of various screws, nuts and bolts, but really wasn’t either rocket science, or even very difficult. Several very rusted and seized screws did have to be ground off though.

Now comes the miserable part.

With reasonable access to the problem, I used a hack saw blade holder saw with a nice high-quality steel cutting blade to saw through the old rusty manifold bolts as close to the flange as possible. This was a bit of a $#@!)(&#!%&!* chore, but was do-able in about 20 minutes, with pauses (no beer yet). The good news is that there was no need to drill out the rusted-in bolts from the manifold flange. See images.





With the old crap removed, my idea was to simply fit the split flange around the Y-pipe and slide it up to the manifold joint, bolt it together (SS bolts), run the U-bolts past the manifold flange, place the U-bolt cross pieces on, then the U-bolt nuts, and tighten it all up. Sound like a plan?

Yeah . . . . WRight . . . . . . . CRAP!

Because of the very close proximity of the exhaust flange to what appears to be the oil filter base, the !#@$%^*!# split flange would not fit around the Y-pipe. So, back to the garage. And no beer yet.

The way I solved this new issue was to again modify the split flange in three ways.

#1: This time I used a grinder to grind down the split flange bolt tubes on the one side (the side that was hitting the oil filter base) to about half their original length. This required the use of a much shorter and smaller diameter 5/16” bolt, but still left plenty of metal to hold the two pieces together. (shown in red on image)

#2: Then I inserted a 5/16” bolt through the split flange bolt tubes (which have a diameter big enough for a much larger bolt) and pounded the tubes flat against the 5/16” bolt, leaving just enough clearance to slide the bolt through. (shown in dark green/black)

#3: Then I cut off one end of the split flange, just past the grooves cut for the U-bolts. (shown in red)

The end result of these three modifications was to allow the split flange to fit around the Y-tube close enough to the joint to allow the U-bolts to hold the split flange and manifold flange together. Unfortunately, in the throes of making this work, I did not get a picture of the final modifications to the split flange, but have included an artists rendering of the mods. See diagram image.



Then, once again, I fit the two sides of the split flange together around the Y-pipe, slid it up as far as possible towards the manifold flange, inserted the split flange bolts and tightly bolted the flange together, and to the Y-pipe.

Then, one at a time, I positioned the two SS U-bolts such that the U part hooked on the special grooves I had cut into the split flange halves, and the threaded ends extended up on each side of the manifold flange. Then I put the rectangular cross pieces on the U-bolts on the top side of the manifold flange, put some SS lock washers and SS nut on the bolt threads, and tightened to please. See image.



I found that the SS U-bolt cross pieces bent somewhat when fully tightened, but they seemed to be strong enough to do the job, and the U-bolts very firmly pulled the Y-pipe up and held it to the manifold flange.

At this point, I started the engine and checked for leaks.

A-OK.

Then a replaced the plastic fenderwell. As I had to grind off a few rusted screws on removal, I had to replace these, and used SS screws as replacements with the re-installation. (Warning: never use SS bolts with anything but SS nuts.)

Then I put the wheel back on and went for a drive.
VERY quiet.

Then I had a beer.
Three.

This procedure seemed to fix the leak, at a very low cost, with one afternoons work (after parts preparation), and with no special tools except a grinder and hacksaw blade saw.

I did this on Saturday 4/21, so I’ll report back if it holds. So far, so good.

While I’m sure this method can be improved upon, I hope this post helps those with this problem, or at least provides some ideas to think about.
And drink beer.

CraigK

If the images do not come through with the post, I’ll try to post them separately.
 


mhughes165

New member
Solid Axle Swap
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
0
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Age
37
Vehicle Year
1987
Vehicle
Ford
Engine Size
302
innovative, very nicely done
 

RobbieD

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Georgia
Vehicle Year
1984,1990,1994
Vehicle
Ford
Very creative. And some things needing a fixing, ain't worth the expense of going the conventional route. That's where shade-tree engineering really has its place.

Let us know how the repair holds up; I'm thinking it'll be fine. Beer is an amazing inspirational tool.
 

rboyer

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
0
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
41
Vehicle Year
1994
Vehicle
Ford
Engine Size
4.hoe
Very creative! I love how the world works, there are highly paid engineers out there who's only job is to think up stuff like this but they couldn't even if their life was on the line, yet an average guy can think it all up after downing a few beers! I think that if every engineer out there would just start drinking beer on the job we'd be driving solar powered hover-cars that require no maintenance by next year.
 

CraigK

New member
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
126
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
1987
Vehicle
Ford
Just thought I'd post an update on the manifold -to-Y-pipe flange fix method I posted in April, as there is a bit of a problem that could have been avoided with a slight installation modification.

The problem I've noticed in the past few months is that the 2" split flange that was bolted to the Y-pipe (see photos in original post) has been slipping up the pipe towards the flange, drawn by tension from the SS U-bolts. The result is slight exhaust leakage again.

The good news is that the U-bolt nuts can easily be re-tightened be reaching down from the engine compartment. This immediately snugs up the whole assembly again, and seals the leak. I've had to do this several times as the split flange has slowly worked its way upwards towards the flare of the Y-pipe. No big deal, but a PITA. After a few re-tightenings, the split flange is now pretty much snug against the upper portion of the Y-pipe where it starts to widen out with the flare. I've also installed an extra nut on each of the U-bolt threads to lock the nuts (now double) in position.

But . . . all this could have been avoided if I had ground down the split flange so that its diameter was less than 2" BEFORE installation. By grinding down the mating surfaces of each half of the split flange about 1/8" or so, the split flange could be bolted to the Y-pipe with the split flange bolts much more solidly. The maximum tightness of the split flange to the y-pipe would not be determined by the two sides of split flange contacting each other (2' diameter), but rather by how tight the flange bolts were tightened closing the gap between the halves of the split flange (<2" diameter). If you are attempting this fix, I'd recommend modifying the split flange in this manner before installation.

Also, remember to use LOTS of anti-seize compound on all nutznbolts, especially the SS U-bolt and nuts, just in case.

CraigK
 

projectnitemare

New member
V8 Engine Swap
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
0
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
39
Location
Osceola Mills, Pa
Vehicle Year
1988
Vehicle
Ford
Engine Size
396W
Not the first time I've seen something like that, it works well. My favorite was an old boat chevy held to the frame with u-bolts because the body bolts rusted away.

Matt
 

martin

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
0
Reaction score
4
Points
0
Age
77
Location
St Bruno, Quebec
Vehicle Year
1984
1991
Vehicle
ford
Very good solution considering limited tooling. I did a similar thing but used a welded together split flange and small heavy c-clamps to hold the parts together, don't know what I'd do without my welder. well done and congrats on the nice writeup, I'm sure it will help out a lot of people with similar problems.
 

mufflerman

New member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
98
Vehicle
ford
mufflerman

Thought I’d share this with this forum, as it seems to be a somewhat common issue with older RBV’s . . .

The Problem:

The passenger-side exhaust manifold to Y-pipe flange on my 1987 Bronco II 2.9L engine is leaking badly. As in “found dead in vehicle” bad. As I can’t afford to have hundreds of dollars of exhaust work done on this old B2, but can’t continue to drive it with the leak, I needed to find a low cost, do-it-myself fix.

Although the Y-pipe itself still appeared to be intact (no holes), the flange piece had mostly rusted/rotted away, and the flange bolts (what’s left of them) could not be unscrewed (believe me, I tried). The VERY limited access to the flange area compounds the problem. I did NOT want to remove the exhaust manifold itself, as I’m sure that I’d be in even DEEPER crap with broken manifold studs, and I’d still have to get the darn manifold flange bolts out. Also, my solution had to NOT require the use of expensive or esoteric tools, or an external contractor (auto repair shop).



So, I drank beer and thought about it.

Then I drank more beer.

And this is what I came up with . . .

The Solution:

Use of a 2” split flange, coupled with two long stainless steel U-bolts, with access to the area by removing the plastic fenderwell, and removal of the old flange and studs with a good ole’ hacksaw.

Steps

First, I got all the split flange and U-bolt parts together. I bought the 2” split flange at NAPA. They actually have two different types, the type I used being the more expensive (~$13). I also choose to use 1 ¾” stainless steel U-bolts, ~6” length (local hardware store), at about $6 each (the non-SS units were about $2 each). See images.





Then, I modified the split flanges by grinding four notches, two on each side, to fit the U-bolts, such that they would be held in place on the split flange when tightened down. See images.





Then I used a couple of huge gobs of silicone to hold the U-bolts in place, thinking this would be needed. (I eventually had to take one U-bolt out of the silicone goop.) See image.



Then, I jacked up the front right wheel, placed the vehicle safely on a jack, removed the wheel, and removed the plastic fenderwell piece. (Got this access idea from another post on TRS – thanks!) This required removal of various screws, nuts and bolts, but really wasn’t either rocket science, or even very difficult. Several very rusted and seized screws did have to be ground off though.

Now comes the miserable part.

With reasonable access to the problem, I used a hack saw blade holder saw with a nice high-quality steel cutting blade to saw through the old rusty manifold bolts as close to the flange as possible. This was a bit of a $#@!)(&#!%&!* chore, but was do-able in about 20 minutes, with pauses (no beer yet). The good news is that there was no need to drill out the rusted-in bolts from the manifold flange. See images.





With the old crap removed, my idea was to simply fit the split flange around the Y-pipe and slide it up to the manifold joint, bolt it together (SS bolts), run the U-bolts past the manifold flange, place the U-bolt cross pieces on, then the U-bolt nuts, and tighten it all up. Sound like a plan?

Yeah . . . . WRight . . . . . . . CRAP!

Because of the very close proximity of the exhaust flange to what appears to be the oil filter base, the !#@$%^*!# split flange would not fit around the Y-pipe. So, back to the garage. And no beer yet.

The way I solved this new issue was to again modify the split flange in three ways.

#1: This time I used a grinder to grind down the split flange bolt tubes on the one side (the side that was hitting the oil filter base) to about half their original length. This required the use of a much shorter and smaller diameter 5/16” bolt, but still left plenty of metal to hold the two pieces together. (shown in red on image)

#2: Then I inserted a 5/16” bolt through the split flange bolt tubes (which have a diameter big enough for a much larger bolt) and pounded the tubes flat against the 5/16” bolt, leaving just enough clearance to slide the bolt through. (shown in dark green/black)

#3: Then I cut off one end of the split flange, just past the grooves cut for the U-bolts. (shown in red)

The end result of these three modifications was to allow the split flange to fit around the Y-tube close enough to the joint to allow the U-bolts to hold the split flange and manifold flange together. Unfortunately, in the throes of making this work, I did not get a picture of the final modifications to the split flange, but have included an artists rendering of the mods. See diagram image.



Then, once again, I fit the two sides of the split flange together around the Y-pipe, slid it up as far as possible towards the manifold flange, inserted the split flange bolts and tightly bolted the flange together, and to the Y-pipe.

Then, one at a time, I positioned the two SS U-bolts such that the U part hooked on the special grooves I had cut into the split flange halves, and the threaded ends extended up on each side of the manifold flange. Then I put the rectangular cross pieces on the U-bolts on the top side of the manifold flange, put some SS lock washers and SS nut on the bolt threads, and tightened to please. See image.



I found that the SS U-bolt cross pieces bent somewhat when fully tightened, but they seemed to be strong enough to do the job, and the U-bolts very firmly pulled the Y-pipe up and held it to the manifold flange.

At this point, I started the engine and checked for leaks.

A-OK.

Then a replaced the plastic fenderwell. As I had to grind off a few rusted screws on removal, I had to replace these, and used SS screws as replacements with the re-installation. (Warning: never use SS bolts with anything but SS nuts.)

Then I put the wheel back on and went for a drive.
VERY quiet.

Then I had a beer.
Three.

This procedure seemed to fix the leak, at a very low cost, with one afternoons work (after parts preparation), and with no special tools except a grinder and hacksaw blade saw.

I did this on Saturday 4/21, so I’ll report back if it holds. So far, so good.

While I’m sure this method can be improved upon, I hope this post helps those with this problem, or at least provides some ideas to think about.
And drink beer.

CraigK

If the images do not come through with the post, I’ll try to post them separately.
The split flange works great, but I would use a part called the Hush studfix to fasten it to the manifold instead of the u bolts. It would make the repair much simpler.
mufflerman
 

mufflerman

New member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
98
Vehicle
ford
mufflerman

The split flange works great, but I would use a part called the Hush studfix to fasten it to the manifold instead of the u-bolts. It would make the repair much easier !
 

mufflerman

New member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
98
Vehicle
ford
How to repair a broken exhaust pipe stud at the Manifold

Here is a fix for your broken stud at the manifold. The Hush studfix™ is a simple clamping apparatus that reattaches the exhaust pipe and flange to the exhaust manifold. This device allows for an easy and relative inexpensive fix for most Ford cars and light trucks. This product eliminates the need to remove the exhaust manifold to replace defective studs. Their website shows how to install it with pictures. This allowed me to repair the problem in less than a hour. By far, this is the best and easiest fix I have come across for repairng this same problem. This part only cost 23.95 which includes two stud fixes. You can check it out at this site below. Let me know how it works out for you.

www.the-hush.com
 

Downey

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
0
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Location
Muncy, PA
Vehicle Year
1994
Vehicle
ford
Engine Size
4.0
^^^ i would rather drill out the broken off bolts and run bolts the whole way thought then spend 25 dollars for one of those stupid things sry but bolts are much cheaper and more reliable
 

UrbanRedneckKid

New member
Solid Axle Swap
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
0
Reaction score
4
Points
0
Age
36
Location
Cass Co, Missouri
Vehicle Year
1994
Vehicle
Ford
Engine Size
4.0L
Here's how I did mine. And it's holding up since august of 08.

I welded a nut to the end of a bolt(x2), and used a split flange.
 

CraigK

New member
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
126
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Vehicle Year
1987
Vehicle
Ford
mufflerman (Chris?)

Looks like a nice device (Hush Studfix). I would consider it if I had to do this again.

But it looks like use of this device would still require either a new Y-pipe (with a new Y-pipe flange) or use of a split-flange on an existing Y-pipe. (As my repair method does.) Also, cutting off of the rusted studs would still be required (as my method does), in fact, due to clearance issues, this would probably have to be cut off quite close to perfectly flush with the manifold flange. Also, again due to clearance issues, it looks like the bolt used with your device would have to be an exact (short) length to work properly, possibly requiring repeated shortenings of the bolt to get "right"??? One more thing, the u-bolts and all nutznbolts of my system are stainless steel, and after 2 years, are shiny and rust-free, and can easily be removed.

From what I can see, most of the tough work required to use my method (mainly cutting off the studs with VERY LIMITED access on my 87 2.9L BII, and grinding the split flange to fit on an existing Y-pipe) would still have to be done to use the Hush device on an existing Y-pipe.

If I was replacing the Y-pipe with a new one, access to the manifold flange might be greatly enhanced, possibly enough to drill out the manifold stud. Downey's suggestion to do this is only useful if you have MUCH better access to the manifold flange than I had - and may require a LOT of additional disassembly to gain this level of access.

UrbanReneck - nice clean design - but alas, most of us (almost)urban rednecks don't have welders handy . . . . :(

BTW - my repair is still holding . . . .

CraigK
 
Last edited:

stevewarne

New member
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hey CraigK, You have done work as a professional.I have a problem.When removing my engines I noticed one of the ears on the Y pipe were it bolts to the transom was broke.Half of the hole is there and it didn't leak before,but can this be welded and re drilled?
If you have some suggestion than please give me.......:icon_confused:
 

Top