Fuel injector question???

[BIIHawg]

Does anyone know if there is a fuel injector available for the 4.0L OHV that has a higher flow rate than the standard 19lbs?

I only ask cause I think i read somewhere that you can upgrade to higher flow injectors from another vehicle.

If I'm way off on this let me know.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[swamprat]

I think there is a 24 lbs injector available from a mustang, but dont take my word on it.

 

[Timbit]

mustang's still only have 19lb stock injectors, if you want 24 you need to go aftermarket.....the t-bird turbo coupes 4 bangers have 36lb stock injectors.....unless your running a s/c on your ranger, upgrading the injectors is useless...you might as well just burn the money....

cause when you do injectors, you have to do maf and TB usually, and also get someone that can re-program your computer to run properly, otherwise you end up with fuel curves spiking and going all over the place, and truck will not run right.....stick with the 19 pounders, cause if they are good enough for a mustang 5.0 they are good enough for the 4.0 for miles and mods to come!

 

[Bob Ayers]

+1 , stay with the stock injectors!

 

[BIIHawg]

Thanks for the info guys. I'm gonna stick with the stockers. Found a set on eBay already.

Man I love this site. I ask a question and within 24 hours I have the answers I'm lookin for.

 

[rocket5979]

mustang's still only have 19lb stock injectors, if you want 24 you need to go aftermarket.....the t-bird turbo coupes 4 bangers have 36lb stock injectors.....unless your running a s/c on your ranger, upgrading the injectors is useless...you might as well just burn the money....

cause when you do injectors, you have to do maf and TB usually, and also get someone that can re-program your computer to run properly, otherwise you end up with fuel curves spiking and going all over the place, and truck will not run right.....stick with the 19 pounders, cause if they are good enough for a mustang 5.0 they are good enough for the 4.0 for miles and mods to come!

The 1994-1995 Mustang Cobra's had the 24 lb/hr injectors stock. They have the EV1 (rectangular) style harness connector so that will have to be taken into consideration for those people wanting to run these 24's on a newer Ranger that might have the EV6 connectors.

I do agree that unless the OP is running allot more power than stock that swapping to a larger injector will not do anything. If he is not currently running out of fuel then he is just fine with the injectors he already has.

However, when you do injectors you do not have to also do the MAF and TB also. Those mods are completely independent of the injectors; assuming that his PCM is tunable.

 

[Bird]

The 1994-1995 Mustang Cobra's had the 24 lb/hr injectors stock. They have the EV1 (rectangular) style harness connector so that will have to be taken into consideration for those people wanting to run these 24's on a newer Ranger that might have the EV6 connectors.

The 'newer' Ranger 4.0's with the EV6 injector connectors (SOHC) already have 24# injectors.......................


Bird

 

[rocket5979]

The 'newer' Ranger 4.0's with the EV6 injector connectors (SOHC) already have 24# injectors.......................


Bird

I do no see a sig for this guy. What year of harness and PCM is he using? That will determine whether he uses the EV1 or EV6 injectors.

 

[Timbit]

The 1994-1995 Mustang Cobra's had the 24 lb/hr injectors stock. They have the EV1 (rectangular) style harness connector so that will have to be taken into consideration for those people wanting to run these 24's on a newer Ranger that might have the EV6 connectors.

I do agree that unless the OP is running allot more power than stock that swapping to a larger injector will not do anything. If he is not currently running out of fuel then he is just fine with the injectors he already has.

However, when you do injectors you do not have to also do the MAF and TB also. Those mods are completely independent of the injectors; assuming that his PCM is tunable.

your right.....you don't NEED to do the MAF and TB if you do the injectors, but what's the point of putting more fuel if you can't put more air to aid in that extra fuel...you will run the car rich and it would be pointless upgrade. When you do ANYTHING to the intake, you wanna program the computer....

Mustangs however didn't come with 24lbs in 94-95....they were stock with 19ibs till 98....the cobra and cobra R from 93 came with the 24lbs stock....

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3138

here is the link....I worked at a dealer, I have owned 3 mustangs.....trust me on this one

 

[rocket5979]

your right.....you don't NEED to do the MAF and TB if you do the injectors, but what's the point of putting more fuel if you can't put more air to aid in that extra fuel...you will run the car rich and it would be pointless upgrade. When you do ANYTHING to the intake, you wanna program the computer....

Sometimes a person can throw a supercharger on their vehicle and need larger injectors without maxxing the MAFS electronics out. I will not even mention a MAFia. A bigger TB is fine and dandy but not necessary at all when boosting for more power in most street driven applications. Going to a bigger TB does help but once again it is not mandatory as some sort of set of upgrades; especially in FI. Additionally the more usual instance to upgrade a MAFS is not to get more airflow from the housing but allow the MAFS and its electronics to meter the additional air more affectively for a FI application. Of course if you do a MAFS modification or injector change then a PCM tune will be in order. You made it sound as if a person always has to do this stuff in sets and that is just not the case.

Mustangs however didn't come with 24lbs in 94-95....they were stock with 19ibs till 98....the cobra and cobra R from 93 came with the 24lbs stock....

Take a look at my previous post. I said 94-95 Mustang Cobra, not just a regular GT. If you doubt it then look it up. I suggest that you refrain from attempting to find Ford data on Mercedes sites from now on though. You might be mislead.

here is the link....I worked at a dealer, I have owned 3 mustangs.....trust me on this one

Tim, I understand you may have owned a few Mustang's and even worked at a dealer once but you would be sorely mistaken if you operated off the assumption that I have only ever owned and/or modified a 1993 Ford Ranger over my career. I am an SCT custom tuner as well as a performance shop owner who has built many Ford's as well as other vehicles for high performance.....trust me on this one. :icon_thumby:

 

[Timbit]

lol...rocket, I agree with ya on the mercedes site...I just grabbed the first thingI can find that was in writing..and yeah I misread the first part about the cobra being the one, not the GT. sorry, my mistake....

as for the mods, what I am saying is pretty much what you said...when you upgrade the intake components you want to make sure you do a tune with it to coincide your mods. Wthout doing that it will cause many fuel delivery issues and skew the calculations the computer does, giving out improper info to allow proper fuel mixing when certain conditions arise.....I agree that adding a charger may not ALWAYS mean having to upgrade intake but if your adding more fuel without compensating for more airflow, regardless what you tune at, your gonna notice at the higher RPM's that it just won't pull to redline as quick as it should......

so you being a tuner, and perf. shop owner, I shall def. look you up if I ever make it to Illinois .....I will for sure bring my mustang and we can give it a good little perk up tune!

 

[Bird]

I do no see a sig for this guy. What year of harness and PCM is he using? That will determine whether he uses the EV1 or EV6 injectors.

Given that he's inquiring about a 4.0 OHV and going from 19# injectors to something bigger, I would have to assume that he's talking about EV1 connectors as the OHV only had those type of connectors on it's engine harnesses up through the end of production of the 4.0 OHV.

As for those that say you don't need to adjust the tune or MAF for the bigger injectors, some of the 4.0 PCM's have been known to be able to compensate in closed loop mode for the bigger injectors, but when WOT (open loop), all you will do is throw a bunch more fuel into the equation that will more than likely kill power unless you've managed to add more airflow into the mix at WOT to use that additional fuel (supercharger, etc). Very precarious balance there without proper tuning though. The use of an FMU when adding a supercharger is another example of trying to add more fuel at additional airflows without actually tuning for it, but at least the FMU can be adjusted somewhat.

Quite often I see a lot of the 'tuner' crowd (ricers) throwing bigger injectors into their engines thinking they'll make more power and all they do is blow soot out the tailpipe - maybe there's a lesson to be learned here............

Bird

 

[rocket5979]

lol...rocket, I agree with ya on the mercedes site...I just grabbed the first thingI can find that was in writing..and yeah I misread the first part about the cobra being the one, not the GT. sorry, my mistake....

I figured that part slipped past you. No problem.

as for the mods, what I am saying is pretty much what you said...when you upgrade the intake components you want to make sure you do a tune with it to coincide your mods. Wthout doing that it will cause many fuel delivery issues and skew the calculations the computer does, giving out improper info to allow proper fuel mixing when certain conditions arise.....I agree that adding a charger may not ALWAYS mean having to upgrade intake but if your adding more fuel without compensating for more airflow, regardless what you tune at, your gonna notice at the higher RPM's that it just won't pull to redline as quick as it should......

so you being a tuner, and perf. shop owner, I shall def. look you up if I ever make it to Illinois .....I will for sure bring my mustang and we can give it a good little perk up tune!

The compensating for more airflow that you talk of could mean two things so I will address both:

A) The MAFS housing being big enough to allow good airflow for making more power.
B) the MAFS electronics being upgraded or swapped to be able to read the additional airflow without maxxing the meter.

If it is A) then with FI it becomes less of a problem than even while N/A. While under pressure flow becomes less critical. That is why when you look at some of the twin screw blower manifolds you will notice some VERY tight bends and turns in the runners. That is because with FI you can get away with it because you can push the air past that minor blockage easier while under pressure than while under vacuum. Inversely, that is why it is very important to ensure that you have minimum airflow blockages while N/A because your VE (volumetric efficiency) is highly affected by this while in a vacuum. You could also bring this example of airflow being less affected while under pressure versus a vacuum when setting up a custom turbo system as well. While it is nice to upgrade to a large CAI tube, larger MAFS (diameter not electronics), larger TB and whatnot it is not always mandatory. Lets face it, most people running these Ranger's are not pushing the boost levels to necessitate the cost of upgrading all those other items just yet. Most want just a nice street vehicle with respectable power but cannot usually afford to go balls to the wall all the time.

B) If you meant your example in the purpose of the MAFS electronics being able to meter all the additional airflow coming through it then you would need to look at the MAF AD Counts (or MAF voltage) in the datalogs to see what they are at. If they are not maxxed out even when under full boost on a cold day then everything is just fine and the MAFS will be able to support that current boost or power level. One additional item worth mentioning is that I try to never go above 80-85% of the MAFS total range. If I am seeing 875 MAF AD Counts in the logs then I am close enough to its max range that I would probably be looking to swap it out for a MAFS with more range. This will allow the new meter to properly meter the airflow without taking a chance of maxxing the meter and going static on fuel delivery. If the meter's electronics are maxxing out then you will see a lean condition come in the higher RPM's which could mean bad things for the engine. Sometimes that lean condition will cause a loss of power. Contrary to popular belief, leaner does not always equal more power in a piston driven engine.

I hope this better clarifies my point.

 

[rocket5979]

Given that he's inquiring about a 4.0 OHV and going from 19# injectors to something bigger, I would have to assume that he's talking about EV1 connectors as the OHV only had those type of connectors on it's engine harnesses up through the end of production of the 4.0 OHV.

Ok then. I believe I only seen a Bronco in his title area so I didn't have any idea which vehicle or components he was using. Thanks for the clarification.

As for those that say you don't need to adjust the tune or MAF for the bigger injectors, some of the 4.0 PCM's have been known to be able to compensate in closed loop mode for the bigger injectors, but when WOT (open loop), all you will do is throw a bunch more fuel into the equation that will more than likely kill power unless you've managed to add more airflow into the mix at WOT to use that additional fuel (supercharger, etc). Very precarious balance there without proper tuning though. The use of an FMU when adding a supercharger is another example of trying to add more fuel at additional airflows without actually tuning for it, but at least the FMU can be adjusted somewhat.

Agreed. I highly recommend that when changing injectors or a MAFS to get a full tune. Such things as Injector Breakpoint, Injector Hi and low slopes, fuel injector minimum PW, injector comp batt volt, and of course the MAF Transfer function will be a few things that will need to be changed to dial the STFT's & AFR's in. Even modifying a MAFS housing can really throw the MAF transfer for a loop.

FMU's throw a static proportional amount of additional fuel at an engine based upon whatever internal diaphragm they have (12:1, 10:1, 8:1 and so on). While they may have been the way to get things sort of working 10-15 years back, they are very old technology now. I recommend to use a FMU more for a table leveler than on a person's fuel system as they are more of a band-aide fuel mod instead of getting proper fueling the right way.

Quite often I see a lot of the 'tuner' crowd (ricers) throwing bigger injectors into their engines thinking they'll make more power and all they do is blow soot out the tailpipe - maybe there's a lesson to be learned here............

There is no need to upgrade to larger injectors if the ones you already have in the vehicle are not maxxed, or close to being maxxed. The people that think they can get more power out of a vehicle, especially the N/A guys, by swapping to larger injectors just boggles my mind. People need to understand that bigger is not always better for a given combination. Bird, I understand where you are coming from there because it is the ignorance that started in the ricer crowd and has started to spread from there. Not a good thing for people like myself that have to go back and do rework on these individuals vehicles when they screw something up from a botched mod. I do make money on the job regardless, but I would rather do that while achieving a higher level of performance with a customers car and not just fixing their mess ups.