Lifters - I Hate Haynes

[barbefunkoramaque]

Okay the Ranger is working perfect

So now on to the 230K (I have no idea whats been done to it) 1989 Bronco II 2.9L Manual

It has Bad lifter/valvetrain noise

I cant imagine the heads making it 230K without replacement but I can imagine someone doing it and not re lashing it.

No amount of warming up is reducing the noise and I do have pressure. although once it (The clatter)disappeared completely for a few minutes.

I popped the valve covers and discovered:

1. The rubbers for the PCV inlet and Blowby fittings are turned into mush.

2. Whoever replaced the covers last got by with silicone on one side and no gasket while the other side still had a rock hard gasket left and no silicone.

3. The underside of the covers was 1/4 thick with sludge... the PCV oil sling cover inside was nearly clogged.

so what does this have to do with HAYNES manuals.

Page 78, number 8 under lifter inspection "Replace entire lifter if plunger is not free in the body."

I thought play in a hydraulic lifter is a bad thing? Or is this read to mean once the lifter IS REMOVED the plunger is free. I have not checked every rocker but there is some substantial movement in the pushrods not associated with the feel of a loose valve lash.

THAT BEING SAID... as I don't want to tear this engine down yet and get into lifter and cam replacement (engine does not smoke)

Considering the nasty sludge build up... and the affect sludge has on oiling those lifters.. what would yall do. Apparently someone I think already poured some nasty shit in there... REMEMBER the gummy rubber on the blowby and PCV inlets.

So based on the highlights what would you do first tighten the lash first or clean the covers, pop them back on and try and flush the engine and oil pump sump?

What threw me was the engine bay was clean enough to eat off of.

 

[90B24wd]

I'd check the rocker arm shafts to see if they're might be dried sludge in there. Punch
a hole in one end, then with a 1/8 rod feel your way through the shaft. If you do find
sludge, use a wood screw bigger than the hole you made and screw it in then pry the plug off.
Dorman has replacement plugs, but bring your old one for the right size. Their is 2 different inside diameter shafts.

 

[WhiteBroncoII2WD]

replacing the shafts wouldn't be too costly either, though you could still check to see if there's sludge in them

 

[MAKG]

Lifters should move freely when the check valve is held open. That's how they adjust. They should also slide AND ROTATE freely in the engine block.

But you're not going to be able to check any of that without disassembling much of the engine. You can't remove 2.9L lifters with the heads installed.

Though there are bottles of magic gunk that claim to clean crankcases, these are a BAD idea -- you'll finish off the lifters with a flood of crap. I'd suggest scraping sludge off of all the surfaces you can get at (especially valve covers and perhaps the oil pan and oil pump pickup), and then running CLEAN engine oil through the engine. Perhaps with 1000 mile oil changes if you can see the oil is getting bad.

This is what not changing the oil for ridiculous periods looks like.

 

[gotmudd]

Lifters should move freely when the check valve is held open. That's how they adjust. They should also slide AND ROTATE freely in the engine block.

But you're not going to be able to check any of that without disassembling much of the engine. You can't remove 2.9L lifters with the heads installed.

Though there are bottles of magic gunk that claim to clean crankcases, these are a BAD idea -- you'll finish off the lifters with a flood of crap. I'd suggest scraping sludge off of all the surfaces you can get at (especially valve covers and perhaps the oil pan and oil pump pickup), and then running CLEAN engine oil through the engine. Perhaps with 1000 mile oil changes if you can see the oil is getting bad.

This is what not changing the oil for ridiculous periods looks like.

MAKG might disagree, but another thing you can do is dump the old oil and replace one quart of fresh oil with ATF, doesn't matter what kind, tranny fluid is HIGHLY DETERGENT. then just let it idle for an hour in your driveway, dump it while it's hot and repeat. it's not harsh like the chemical cleaners, while still being a petroleum product. just my 0.02 :icon_thumby:

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The gromets turning to goo is not that uncommon.

I run Valvoline in my Ranger that gets changed about once a year (I don't drive it much anymore, and I am always topping off with fresh) and I am always getting new grommets, gets kind of old.

From the sounds of things the one valve cover has never been off...

 

[WhiteBroncoII2WD]

Though there are bottles of magic gunk that claim to clean crankcases, these are a BAD idea -- you'll finish off the lifters with a flood of crap. I'd suggest scraping sludge off of all the surfaces you can get at (especially valve covers and perhaps the oil pan and oil pump pickup), and then running CLEAN engine oil through the engine. Perhaps with 1000 mile oil changes if you can see the oil is getting bad.

This is what not changing the oil for ridiculous periods looks like.

To get the oil pan clean, you're going to need to pull the engine, but to get the job right, it really should be done. Maybe while it's out, go ahead and pull the heads, replace the lifters, and check the heads, one to see if they're the improved design and or two check for cracks.

 

[MAKG]

Removing the heads is quite a lot deeper into the engine. I don't think it's called for under the circumstances. You can test for cracks inside the cylinder with a leakdown test, and outside by noticing if there is snot in the oil (or visually -- though they don't have to be visible, they often are).

You can also see if the lifters are moving properly with just the valve covers off (with a dial indicator on the rocker arms). If you remove the rocker shafts, you can even test for exhaust valve recession (with a straightedge) with the heads installed.

FYI, Help! sells the PCV grommets cheap.

 

[barbefunkoramaque]

alan and big jim need to chime in

he says help sells them for cheap, the grommets

Yes I do know that I could pull the engine and just do everything. Actually I am the type of guy that leaves the old engine in, has the junkyard pull me another one, rebuilds it in his sunroom and drops and exchanges engine. But I do not care for the Bronco II that much really and if the engine blows I am chucking it anyway. However, that being said I am going to do some work on it to try and salvage whats salvageable.

That being said I will indeed inspect the rocker shafts for sludge and make those covers pristine clean. I am thinking of soaking the oil pan while its on with sea foam (a little better than chemtools stuff) to hopefully dislodge any sludge caught in the oil sump. Then put three quarts of oil in.. start and run carefully, then drain THEN do the ATF and oil additive. (Using a new filter) thing then flush again and then drain and refill with new oil and a new filter again.

Then loosen and slightly adjust the valves maybe 1/4 turns increments if there is some restoration of the lifter movements.

If after 500 to 100 miles I hear a reduction in chatter.. I will pop the pan and replace the oil pan gasket which is probably as hard as the remaining valve cover gasket was.

Now I know Pit BBQ... not trucks and my style of instruction is along the same lines as ALAN and Jim... so I wan't to hear how many ways I am fucking this up? LOL

Seriously, I've been told I am stupid before, I am only polishing a turd here so am I barking up the right tree?

 

[WhiteBroncoII2WD]

he says help sells them for cheap, the grommets

Yes I do know that I could pull the engine and just do everything. Actually I am the type of guy that leaves the old engine in, has the junkyard pull me another one, rebuilds it in his sunroom and drops and exchanges engine. But I do not care for the Bronco II that much really and if the engine blows I am chucking it anyway. However, that being said I am going to do some work on it to try and salvage whats salvageable.

That being said I will indeed inspect the rocker shafts for sludge and make those covers pristine clean. I am thinking of soaking the oil pan while its on with sea foam (a little better than chemtools stuff) to hopefully dislodge any sludge caught in the oil sump. Then put three quarts of oil in.. start and run carefully, then drain THEN do the ATF and oil additive. (Using a new filter) thing then flush again and then drain and refill with new oil and a new filter again.

Then loosen and slightly adjust the valves maybe 1/4 turns increments if there is some restoration of the lifter movements.

If after 500 to 100 miles I hear a reduction in chatter.. I will pop the pan and replace the oil pan gasket which is probably as hard as the remaining valve cover gasket was.

Now I know Pit BBQ... not trucks and my style of instruction is along the same lines as ALAN and Jim... so I wan't to hear how many ways I am fucking this up? LOL

Seriously, I've been told I am stupid before, I am only polishing a turd here so am I barking up the right tree?

However it works best for you as long as you reach the goals you're seeking