Big Bronco 2 Conversion

[BigBronco2]

Ok, so I started out on this forum the wrong way I think...
Anyways, I am doing a v8 conversion on my 87 Bronco ll. I have the engine and tranny in the truck right now but have not got the motor mounts or tranny cross member mounted yet. Looking at it, I'm thinking that I'm going to have some issues when I go to mount the transfer case. I dont think I have enough room. I rebuilt a 302 from an 84 E150 and pulled the tranny out of a 91 F150 4x4. The tranny is the M50D R2, and the transfer case is is the Borg Warner 13-56. I've been told that they are both strong units, but it looks to me that there is only going to be like 14" from the tail shaft on the tranny to the left frame rail, and the transfer case is like 18" from the input shaft to the outside of the case. Anybody got any ideas? I may end getting some c-chanel and making a small reinforced dogleg in the frame if I dont come up with anything else. This conversion is kind of on a small budget, and being done when I have the extra cash to do what I need to do.
Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

T-cases usually drop down some on the output side, that would buy a little room.

If it comes down to hacking up the frame I would dump the 1356 for a smaller t-case.

Right now I am planning on a Bronco (fixed rear output) NP-208 for when I do my M5OD swap. The NP-205 would be nice because it is bulletproof and tiny but eyeballing it the mount would be where my fuel pump is.

 

[BigBronco2]

I thought about that too, about the tcase dropping down some. and yes, its going to pretty much run right into where the existing fuel pump is currently located, but that's all going to come out. I will be running new fuel lines from the new mechanical pump I'm putting on the carburated 302. The stock pump is too much for the Holly 600 I'm going to run. I've also seen some info in header clearance problems. I dont have them installed yet, but it doesnt look like I will be experiencing too many issues there. Maybe because I have some body lift on mine.
I will definitely keep you updated as to what I run into.
Hopefully I will get the mounts fabbed up this morning

 

[projectnitemare]

Almost guranteed that the 1356 will require you to trim on the frame somewhere. Less chance with the Np208, and no trimming should be required for a NP 205 but you will have to make an extra mount for that one. I've never cared to try being I don't use the R2 but the question that seems to stand will the housing and tailshaft swap from the R1 to the R2? If so the factory ranger t-case would be an option then too.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Maybe because I have some body lift on mine.

The only thing that complicates is leaning over the fender, makes every MUCH easier to get at otherwise.

 

[dangerranger83]

Careful putting a mechanical pump for a 302 swap into an RBV as it may get in the way of the steering box. But there is one mechanical pump that will clear and I think its from the 70's E-van. Its a factory upside down design.

You could also go with a Mr.Gasket electrical pump too. Im running one and they are great for running carbed engines. Mine ran me about $45 or so at my local parts store.

Also if your B2 has the dual pump setup on it, the intank pump may be able to do you just fine, just bypass the wiring for the high pressure pump and the fuel line for it too. Both pumps are wired in series for the postive electric feed.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I can't help in this conversation as all I have is a question;
Could you move the engine/trans over any to gain room?
Or move the engine/trans over at an angle?
I know you are supposed to keep the center-lines of the t-case and rear pinion parallel, but is there any wiggle room?
Is there another option for the u-joint that allows for non-parallel center-lines?
OK, there was more than just a question...but they are all related
Good luck,

Richard

 

[BigBronco2]

Thanks for the tips guys...
Dangerranger, you said the in tank pump should do fine, do you have any idea what kind of pressure that puts out? I've been told that anything over like 7psi is going to over fill the bowls and cause fuel to dump down into the carb at idle???
I think I will go ahead and try it. That's a little ways down the road though. I have to get things lined up and mounted first.
I cant wait to get her ready for body and paint.
This thing has virtually no rust on it, (it came from Alaska) just some pretty good dents here and there and some hideous zebra paint on it right now.
if I could figure out how to post some pics, I'd show it to you.

 

[snoranger]

I've never cared to try being I don't use the R2 but the question that seems to stand will the housing and tailshaft swap from the R1 to the R2? If so the factory ranger t-case would be an option then too.

I've looked into that, the extension housing is different and will not work. I dont know about the output shaft, it may.

I know you are supposed to keep the center-lines of the t-case and rear pinion parallel, but is there any wiggle room?


Richard

Actually, on a street driven vehicle you want the driveshaft to be at a slight angle. It promotes better needle bearing rotation inside the the u-joints and they last longer.

 

[trail B2]

I had a 95 F-150 and looked into putting half ton in the B2.The thing I couldn't figure how to get around was it was to long,no drive line left.I think your going to have to run V8 explorer drive train behind your 302.If you cut the frame to make things fit your probably going to end this project with a fresh 302 and nothing else.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Actually, on a street driven vehicle you want the driveshaft to be at a slight angle. It promotes better needle bearing rotation inside the the u-joints and they last longer.

Parrallel as to each other, not perpandicular to the ground.

If you have the pinion flange tipped up 6* you want the trans tipped down 6* or vice versa depending on what your project is. That is what I heard when I did my 8.8 swap anyway...

 

[snoranger]

Parrallel as to each other, not perpandicular to the ground.

If you have the pinion flange tipped up 6* you want the trans tipped down 6* or vice versa depending on what your project is. That is what I heard when I did my 8.8 swap anyway...

Your right as far as matching the angles (both angles should add up to 180°). What Im talking about is they should be offset from each other as viewed from above. A slight angle to either side is good for the lifespan of the u-joints. (The same rules apply here as setting pinion angle, the angles must match each other if you dont want a vibration.)

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Your right as far as matching the angles (both angles should add up to 180°). What Im talking about is they should be offset from each other as viewed from above. A slight angle to either side is good for the lifespan of the u-joints. (The same rules apply here as setting pinion angle, the angles must match each other if you dont want a vibration.)

You're saying to keep the center-lines parallel but offset slightly? So no twisting the engine slightly out of parallel? As viewed from above.

Richard

 

[BigBronco2]

Yea, I'm not really interested in twisting things up. The only thing I Was planning on doing was to notch a hole in the upright portion of the c-chanel frame where the transfer case would hit and weld a box to the outside of the frame rail to reinforce the notch. Not sure how things are going to go yet, just looking to get opinions and options. I'm going to look into finding another transfer case.
By the way, someone suggested the internal fuel pump should do just fine... The research that I have done suggests that the internal pump should give me between 4 to 6psi, and I'm being told that a Holly 600cfm requires 5 to 7psi. I think I'm going to go that route and see where it takes me. They did away with mechanical pumps for a reason. I'll see how the electric one does for now.

 

[projectnitemare]

I checked around as well, the tailhousing between the two M5s are different, doubt the shaft interchage either due to size. There is some side to side room but it depends on headers. Also too much will cause driveline issues. I could really get into driveshaft angles and harmonics but that would take all day, long story made short check an old Caddy it will have double cardians at each end of the driveshaft because the pinion is offset. You want the angles to cancel out. At static ride you actually want the pinion a degree or two down to take up for the deflection under load. The in tank pump will work fine but it still isn't a bad idea to regulate it, return style is better than a dead head when it comes to regulators. And for mechanical pumps the econoline with a 302 has the upside down pump that works for the swaps...I still have one new in the box I went electric as well when I first did mine. If you are going t-case shopping i will suggest the 205. 99.9% of the time it will clear your frame no problem. The problem is it's heavy. You must build an extra mount for it or you'll snap your tail housing. Some don't like the lousy 1.96:1 low range but it's the strongest factory t-case made. And you can twin stick it for free. You will have to notch the trans extension housing to clear the shift rails also.

 

[snoranger]

You're saying to keep the center-lines parallel but offset slightly? So no twisting the engine slightly out of parallel? As viewed from above.

Richard

Exactly.

Yea, I'm not really interested in twisting things up. The only thing I Was planning on doing was to notch a hole in the upright portion of the c-chanel frame where the transfer case would hit and weld a box to the outside of the frame rail to reinforce the notch. Not sure how things are going to go yet, just looking to get opinions and options. I'm going to look into finding another transfer case.
By the way, someone suggested the internal fuel pump should do just fine... The research that I have done suggests that the internal pump should give me between 4 to 6psi, and I'm being told that a Holly 600cfm requires 5 to 7psi. I think I'm going to go that route and see where it takes me. They did away with mechanical pumps for a reason. I'll see how the electric one does for now.

There are a few pics of a 13-56 sitting nicely between the Ranger frame rails in this thread:

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132734

 

[dangerranger83]

The intank pump can put out 7psi. If it does seem to be to much then a return fuel regulator could help you out too.

My Holley 600cfm likes it 4.5 psi that Im feeding it. Anymore and it doesnt want to run right and wants to flood (fought it for hours trying to tune it for more psi but nothing worked) so I left it at what it is now and got the foats to where they should be. TBH, I hate my Holley and Im getting an Edelbrock for simplicity and doesnt mind the change in weather as much either.

 

[BigBronco2]

Got little bit of work done today, but still not even close to driving her out of the garage.
I got the wet clutch mounted and run.(going from automatic to standard isn't all that easy)
So I used the stock clutch/brake setup out of the F150, That made it easy to set the clutch placement. I'm going to have to make some revisions when I go to mount the steering column though.
I think I'm happy with the placement of the engine. Still haven't got it mounted to the frame, I wanted to see if anyone else has done it this way before. I got the engine out of a 84 E150, and the motor mounts were still on it, I'm contemplating using the mounts that are there and either welding them to the cross member or drilling new holes for these mounts. these mounts are making it nice locating the engine nice and level. The only problem I have right now is the water pump pulley is off to the passenger side of the vertical grill mount bar, (I'm assuming this bar is center and the pulley is center)
I would put some pics up here, but every time I try it tells me that they are too big and I'm not exactly sure as to how to condense them.
Let me know what you think.
PS... Still not positive as to what I'm doing on the tcase
Thanks guys

 

[BigBronco2]

Exactly.





There are a few pics of a 13-56 sitting nicely between the Ranger frame rails in this thread:

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132734

Thanks for the link, I'm thinking I can make it work...
Will let you know.

 

[allnpt0]

By the way, someone suggested the internal fuel pump should do just fine... The research that I have done suggests that the internal pump should give me between 4 to 6psi, and I'm being told that a Holly 600cfm requires 5 to 7psi. I think I'm going to go that route and see where it takes me. They did away with mechanical pumps for a reason. I'll see how the electric one does for now.

Just use the stock in-tank pump. By-pass the frame rail pump and install a holley fuel pressure regulator. Ran my 86 Ranger that way for ten years. It had a Holley 650 DP. A 4777 iirc.

Pete