Cat Laws

[Nathan123]

I plan on doing a manual trans swap on my bii this spring and while the y pipe is down and out to do the swap, I plan on putting some nicer sounding exhaust parts back in. The bronco has the factory double cat set up. The flange that bolts it to the Y pipe is in really bad shape, I think I'll have to cut it apart and ruin it to get the Y pipe out. So if I get a single magnaflow cat and weld up a flange to bolt it to the Y, and put a muffler after that with a pipe, say out in front of the back tire, would it still pass an the "visual" emissions test? Also, this shouldn't affect the O2 sensor at all should it?

 

[cammeddrz]

would it still pass an the "visual" emissions test?

the answer to this question varies from county to county, ask your local inspector, or county health department (they are the sanctioning bodies over emissions testing)

 

[shane96ranger]

I'm pretty sure the front cat is just a pre-heater. If you put a 3-way cat on it, the front cat is no longer needed. The fuzz doesn't give me any issues with only 2 cats on my Mustang (it had 4 from the factory). It passes more easily than it ever did with the factory H-pipe on it.

But like cammeddrz says, your county may have different laws.

 

[88_Eddie]

depends on state laws.

for instance, down here, i just have to visually have a cat. the truck is so old that it doesnt have to pass an emissions test, just a safety inspection.

 

[shane96ranger]

depends on state laws.

for instance, down here, i just have to visually have a cat. the truck is so old that it doesnt have to pass an emissions test, just a safety inspection.

What year is your cut off year? I believe 1984 and newer has to have a cat here in Salt Lake County.

 

[Nathan123]

I hope adsm sees this since he's an inspection tech here in pa. This is what it says I have to do to be legal, but I guess my question is, if I put a single cat on will they complain that it should have a double set up. If the double cat setup didn't cost almost 300 bucks maybe I'd consider, but I like the idea of a single magnaflow.
Visual Check

What is a Visual Anti-Tampering Check?
The Visual Anti-Tampering Check is a visual inspection for the presence of emission control components that were installed on your vehicle by the manufacturer.

How is a Visual Anti-Tampering Check performed?
A certified technician will look for the presence of the following emission control devices:

* Catalytic converter
* Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve
* Positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve
* Fuel inlet restrictor
* Air pump
* Evaporative control system components such as vapor canisters and lines.

The certified technician will also determine if these devices are properly connected and if they are the correct type for the vehicle being inspected.

 

[88_Eddie]

What year is your cut off year? I believe 1984 and newer has to have a cat here in Salt Lake County.

last i heard, 95 and older didnt have to pass emissions, just $12 for a safety inspection....they do check to make sure you have a cat and muffler tho

 

[xkotyx]

did somebody say cat laws?

 

[shane96ranger]

* Air pump

I don't think you have a smog pump

 

[Nathan123]

All that bulleted crap is from PA's website, thats what they say needs to happen. I've heard the '95 and older rule too.

 

[shane96ranger]

All that bulleted crap is from PA's website, thats what they say needs to happen. I've heard the '95 and older rule too.

I believe most counties have laws that move, like 15 years old, etc. But IIRC, it is stuck at 84 and newer here.

EDIT: BTW, I have run the Magnaflow/Carsound cats before, and they are a very nice converter. They sound amazing compared to stock, and pass emissions better than factory.

Here's a link to them on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Carsound-MagnaFlow-Catalytic-Converter-2-5-HF-FS-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2eb34109eeQQitemZ200575879662QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[gribly]

Anything after '75 that had a cat, needs a cat. Federal Law.

 

[shane96ranger]

Anything after '75 that had a cat, needs a cat. Federal Law.

Can you tell me where this is stated by the feds? I've searched and can't see it anywhere. All I can see is that automakers were required to put them on 72 and newer.

I wonder why, if this is a federal law, a county has it's own set of laws that it goes by?

I'm not trying to disprove anyone, I just can't find it anywhere. I'd also like to have it bookmarked because this topic comes up a lot on this and other forums I frequent.

EDIT: I've found these docs on the EPA site, but I don't see it saying it has to be on any 75 and newer car.

http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt

http://www.epa.gov/oms/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf

 

[Nathan123]

Here is the disclaimer on my states website, this is where I see mention of the year '75.

Disclaimer: Gasoline-powered motor vehicles with a model year of 1975 and newer with a GVWR of 9,000 pounds or less and registered in an I/M county or region are subject to an emission inspection. Actual test requirements based on make and model, drive system, vehicle weight, etc. The regulations in Title 67 Pa. Code, Chapter 177 shall determine the test type for any individual vehicle.

 

[shane96ranger]

Here is the disclaimer on my states website, this is where I see mention of the year '75.

Disclaimer: Gasoline-powered motor vehicles with a model year of 1975 and newer with a GVWR of 9,000 pounds or less and registered in an I/M county or region are subject to an emission inspection. Actual test requirements based on make and model, drive system, vehicle weight, etc. The regulations in Title 67 Pa. Code, Chapter 177 shall determine the test type for any individual vehicle.

This is what I mean by counties having their own rules. The only federal law I can see is the manufacturers had to put them on in 72 and newer (in my link above). I've never heard of the feds looking at your car to see if it has emissions equipment, but I may be wrong. We have a few counties here that do not have emissions, just a safety inspection. I don't know that they even do a visual inspection.

 

[snoranger]

Can you tell me where this is stated by the feds? I've searched and can't see it anywhere. All I can see is that automakers were required to put them on 72 and newer.

I wonder why, if this is a federal law, a county has it's own set of laws that it goes by?

I'm not trying to disprove anyone, I just can't find it anywhere. I'd also like to have it bookmarked because this topic comes up a lot on this and other forums I frequent.

EDIT: I've found these docs on the EPA site, but I don't see it saying it has to be on any 75 and newer car.

http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt

http://www.epa.gov/oms/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf

Right here.

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/policies/civil/caa/mobile/exhsysrepair.pdf

 

[tanbuddy]

I live in a shitty emission county in pa, my truck passed with just the first cat and its holllowed out. What a bullshit law my next truck is gonna be diesel so i dont have to deal with it.

 

[Nathan123]

Thanks tanbuddy thats what I thought, if theres something that looks like a cat down there, your good to go. In reality its a little pointless because if there isn't a tailpipe test, what does it matter if there's a cat or not. "Oh yeah I have a cat but it doesn't do shit." I hate complying with vehicle laws.

 

[cammeddrz]

from that link:

a repair facility should consult with the State to
determine if the State has a similar policy towards this type of
repair work or how State laws may affect the legality of its
actions.

from that i am getting a mixed understanding of which is prevalent. local or federal

 

[gribly]

It's retarded to have a hollowed out cat on your exhaust. A properly functioning modern cat WILL flow better than a hollowed out cat, and there is a scientific reason for this. The hollow cat acts as an expansion chamber, and slows down exhaust gasses, which then speed up when they enter the exhaust pipe again. This creates an area with a lot of friction and resistance, so flow drops. Add in the turbulence added by the air flowing away and then towards itself due to the expansion chamber, you have some shitty flow.

The ONLY time hollowing out a cat increases horsepower is when you hollow out a clogged one, which is a no-brainer what the effects of that are.