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need immediate help, drive shaft.


jayterrence

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got a new drive shaft from the bronco grave yard...replaced the CV style with a Dana Spicer style because of my lift, new shaft didn't have markings for which end went where. I took a guess and mounted it with the shorter slip closer to the rear diff, took it for a drive and had a shake, supposed to be balanced shafts. Did I mount it the wrong way??
 
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Jim Oaks

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The double cardan end is usually at the transfer case.
 

Jim Oaks

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On that style shaft the slip yoke is generally at the transfer case.
 

ab_slack

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Maybe it is an optical illusion, but the shaft in that pic looks like it is bent. It also doesn't look like the u-joints aren't phased properly. But since that is hosted on broncograveyard.com I guess it is their stock pic and not your shaft. If it is the pic of your shaft, um better make sure it really is strait and that the u-joint phasing is correct.

For that type of shaft people say they have seen them mounted either direction and it doesn't make much difference. In my opinion it is best to have the side attached to the center part of the slip joint towards the rear and the sleeve side of the slip joint towards the front. This way, for what it is worth, crap and water is not getting hurled at the point where the sleeve slides over the inner shaft while moving forward.

My shaft is similar looking and it is the right hand side in that picture which I have connected at the transfer case.

I don't think the direction is the problem off hand.

Assuming the shaft is not bent and the phasing is correct

The reason BIIs has the shaft with CV joints is because of the relatively short wheelbase resulting in a fairly steep shaft angle. The CV joints could tolerate that well.

A u-joint type shaft will vary speed as it rotates (unlike with CV joints). The steeper the angle the more it varies. Intrinsically the speed-up/slow-down of the shaft each rotation takes energy/returns energy causing small pulsations, but in practice the mass of the shaft is too small compared to the rest of the mass it is turning to be noticed.

The real problem is that the angles at both end of the shaft need to be the same. This requires the output shaft of the transfer case and input shaft of differential to be parallel in both the vertical and horizontal planes. With the shaft properly phased the rotation speed changes caused by each u-joint at each end will cancel and you will get nice constant rotation at the wheels. If the angles aren't the same (transfer case output shaft/differential input shaft are not parallel) or phasing wrong they won't cancel resulting in the system trying to make your rear wheels and entire vehicle speed up/slow down each shaft rotation. Obviously that isn't going to happen but it wants to and this shows up as vibration.

The steeper the angle of the shaft the more critical this alignment becomes as the rotational speed variation get bigger. There is a point where angles can become too large. This is why Jim mentioned the double cardan type shaft. The angles are already steep on BII, lifting it will make that worse.

I know people who have used the standard two u-joint shafts with lifted BIIs but depending on how much lift that could be pushing it. I also think a double cardan type shaft is more tolerant of angles too but I don't know too much about the ins and outs of that kind of shaft.

A CV drive shaft can cover up many sins since the driveline angles become non-critical and higher angles can be tolerated.

So since you changed from a CV style to the u-joint type, there is no telling how well aligned your driveline was. My guess is that it was off. Now with the U-joint shaft you are noticing it. Or maybe when you lifted it you rotated the rear axle to have it point upwards a little which would definitely mess up angles (although I believe I seen this done when using double cardan type shafts).

Or you just have too steep angles for a u-joint drive shaft after lift.

That is my off hand guess. When I went from CV shaft to the u-joint (since my CV shaft was failing) I picked up a little vibration. I only notice it when accelerating hard in first gear. I don't notice it too much now as I have grown use to it, but it definitely doesn't have the smooth push of the original CV shaft. If I could get a CV shaft in good condition I would go back to CV shaft since I don't do any significant off road driving where the stronger u-joint shaft would be an advantage.

Getting those angles right, if that is what is wrong, may not be so easy. I am not sure how it is done. Mostly rotating rear axle I believe to change vertical (or adding shims under axle mounts I have heard). Hopefully horizontal is correct.

Less pain of the neck things you should check first.

Make sure drive shaft phasing is correct. This is a big one that is easy to check and should be easy to fix.

Make sure shaft isn't bent.

This has some good diagrams and explanation of what is going on http://jniolon.clubfte.com/drivelinephasing/drivelinephasing.html
 

JerryC

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I bought a DS from JBG and had the same question. I called and was told the slip joint goes to the diff. It works perfectly for me that way.

edit: Did you make sure that you cleaned the mating surfaces before you bolted it up? I scraped mine clean with razor blade before bolting it up.
 
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3rd Petal

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As mentioned above, I would bet it is something with your driveline angles, not the driveshaft itself, I doubt JBG would sell you a bad driveshaft. How much of a lift did you install? I've got a 4" on mine with a regular U-joint style driveshaft, and I just mocked the rear end together before burning down the spring perches to get my driveline angle right, and have zero vibration issues. So it is very doable without the need for a double cardan style driveline.

Also, the orientation of the slip joint shouldn't really matter, its balanced no matter which way it turns. I've run them both directions on many different rigs, doesn't seem to matter. My school of thought says that the slip should go on the t-case side so it is further away from the mud and muck your are driving through, but it shouldn't make too much difference.

If you could, post up a picture of your driveline installed in the Bronco so we can see what the angle looks like and give you better advise on that
 

jayterrence

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I only put in a 4" lift, BUT.......I also installed Explorer leaf springs and that brought the rear up about 5.5 inches in total. the angle of the u joint at the rear is fine but the angle at the trans is a bit steep, they are defiantly not the same. I'll try and post a picture.
 

jayterrence

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I hope this works, 2 pictures on the shaft, took it for a ride tonight and it has a rumble to it for sure...
 

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ab_slack

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First it looks like it should be mounted in the other direction just from a dirt standpoint, but that will not cause vibration.

Based on those picture it seems pretty obvious that your driveline angles are messed up as you said. Quite clearly at the output shaft of your transfer case the angle is pretty steep, but at the rear differential the angle is shallow. That will give you vibration for sure.

Looks like you need to rotate your rear axle to lower the differential input to bring that angle the same as the other end. I don't know the best way to do that.

I think a double cardan type shaft you may be perfectly fine, but as I said before I don't know all the ins and outs of the double cardan type shafts.
 

3rd Petal

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Again, I agree with ab_slack. With a regular u-joint DS you want your t-case and axle flanges on the exact same plane, so normally the t-case points down ever so slightly, so the axle needs to point up ever so slightly to match it. For a CV DS you want the axle flange pointing basically right at the t-case flange, or slightly below it to account for axle wrap. Right now it looks like your are in pretty good shape to run a CV driveline, as it looks like the axle is pointing up towards the t-case.
The best option would probably be to run a CV driveline.
But if it were me and I had just bought that new regular driveline, I would just cut your spring perches off and rotate your axle down a bit, then weld them back on. Or if you don't have access to a welder, some degree shims like this between the axle and spring would probably do the trick too
http://www.summitracing.com/nv/parts/sja-ws430/overview/
 

jayterrence

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The BDS website states, "4. Bronco II 1985-90 models with CV joint type drive shaft must be converted to an exposed joint shaft. ".... this is for both the 4" and the 6" lift kit.....what is an Exposed drive shaft????
 

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