Prerunner or Rock crawler

[CopyKat]

CopyKat,
Are you running drop brackets or did you cut and turn your beams?

-Jester

Drop brackets right now but I plan to run shorter ones with the new axle I've got planned.

Most of the 4x4 prerunners use the Highrider geometry for their brackets, this gives them a few inches more of bump travel.

 

[The Jester Race]

Ok you lost me with "Highrider Geometry", please explain.

-Jester

 

[CopyKat]

STX Highrider brackets. They are a 1.5" lift bracket that Ford used some 87-89 rangers. More of a leveling lift for the front. Most of the prerunner guys base their brackets on this 1.5" lift height.

 

[4x4junkie]

Bump travel isn't really a function of the brackets, that's simply a matter of where you put the bumpstop (my axle will go all the way up and hit the frame if I were to remove the bumpstop).

But as far as "tearing up your rig" on Rubicon, not if you've built it to handle it.
When I went through there the only thing I got was a small scrape on the left-rear quarter. No other damage outside of slightly bent rocksliders because I hadn't reinforced them (this was on smallish 33s too). I've been through Dusy/Ershim too (much like Rubicon, but almost 3× longer) and again nothing really to speak of as far as damage. Of course good driving certainly helps too.

So you're 50 miles from the 'Con... I hate you

J/K lol
I would love to live up there. If you can go in the middle of the week, the crowds would likely be non-existent.

 

[CopyKat]

Bump travel isn't really a function of the brackets, that's simply a matter of where you put the bumpstop (my axle will go all the way up and hit the frame if I were to remove the bumpstop).

That's not what I was trying to get across. If you drop the pivots 1.5" you get Just that much more up travel at the wheel before you hit the bumpstop.

 

[4x4junkie]

Oh you're talking about vs. STOCK brackets, I got ya now. Yes that would be true.

The way your post is worded I thought you were implying C&T beams on Highrider brackets would have more travel than unmodded beams on say, 4" lift brackets.

 

[The Jester Race]

Bump travel isn't really a function of the brackets, that's simply a matter of where you put the bumpstop (my axle will go all the way up and hit the frame if I were to remove the bumpstop).

But as far as "tearing up your rig" on Rubicon, not if you've built it to handle it.
When I went through there the only thing I got was a small scrape on the left-rear quarter. No other damage outside of slightly bent rocksliders because I hadn't reinforced them (this was on smallish 33s too). I've been through Dusy/Ershim too (much like Rubicon, but almost 3× longer) and again nothing really to speak of as far as damage. Of course good driving certainly helps too.

So you're 50 miles from the 'Con... I hate you

J/K lol
I would love to live up there. If you can go in the middle of the week, the crowds would likely be non-existent.

Actually I live about 75 miles away or if you take the long way 96 miles, from the 'Con. As far as building a truck to handle it, I know what your saying, and there are rigs that go through without a scratch on them, but then there are guys that beat on their rigs pretty hard too. I know a guy that had his rig on its roof 3 times in one weekend. I guess it is how you drive 'em.

*Sigh* I still dont know which one I want to build. :icon_idea: Ive got it, Ill buy another truck and build both.....I wish.

4x4junkie, you got me wanting to build the rock crawler.:icon_thumby: But I cant get over the way the prerunner looks. I think.... Really, how bad are TTB's in the rocks? And how goofy would a prerunner look out on the 'Con?

Maybe Im going about this all wrong. Maybe I should just throw out the styling and just build and see what comes of it....maybe not, could end up with something that isnt functional. Maybe just to start out, a 4" skyjacker lift and the fiberglass. Use that as my base and build from there:icon_confused:.

I didnt think this decission would be so hard.

-Jester

 

[koda6966]

I vote prerunner because IMO it's more fun, although you would have less of a chance to break things as a crawler.

 

[philzilla]

Don't get me wrong i love pre-runner(not the "bro"ed out ones) but i just dont think the b2 would work as well as a pre runner as it would a rock crawler. Just look at jeep speed those things are cool but still the short wheel base exaggerates bumps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfS9zdVjGh4&feature=related

 

[CopyKat]

They fly pretty straight to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnHkMuB1xf8

 

[Mutant Pony]

I've got a good example of when cut and turn is better than drop brackets.

The sand spray is from my drop brackets biting into the sand in compression. I want to go with shorter brackets and a small cut and turn.
I'm not a fan of the short wheel base, I've driven them offroad and I don't like the "bucking" of the BII.

 

[4x4junkie]

That is infact the main reason modded beams would be better for jumping (clearance, not so much strength or travel #s).
However they don't come without a downside though, and that's increased jacking and track-width narrowing at droop that comes from having the pivot points higher up in the chassis (along with more stress on the center axle u-joint & slip-spline). This can affect some aspects of handling at slower speeds more than it does at high speed, particularly if you have to traverse an off-camber hill or rock at an angle instead of going straight up it.
My beams are not modded for lift. They are reinforced in a couple spots for strength however. While I don't normally do the jumping thing, I do find the suspension still handles the smaller undulations in the road far better than solid axles when I do pick up the speed a little.


TTB seems to work rather well in rocks, I've found. Pretty much any time I'm out wheeling it's with solid axled rigs, so a direct comparison is always available.

If you build a TTB to take on rocks, something you need to pay particular attention to is the springs. Almost every TTB suspension lift out there has coils that are literally twice as rigid as they need to be on a BII. This will totally make or break performance, as it of course robs you of most of your flex. The other thing is steering geometry. Again the aftermarket gets it all wrong in most cases (mainly all the mainstream companies).
I used Jeep Cherokee coils that are a bit on the stiffer side (for the Jeep anyway). These have basically twice the flex of TTB springs.
I also put a "center" limit cable on the front suspension (single cable that runs over the frame from one side to the other), which kindof further forces the TTB to act like a straight axle while the going is slow. But if you want to go fast, the cable can be released to allow the full independent amount of droop travel.

Although I built mine a little more toward the Rockcrawler side than Prerunner, I'd bet I could turn it into a good dual-purpose rig without much further investment (mostly with just putting a better shock setup on, as I've already got the travel). Jumping it really just doesn't seem to thrill me as much though (maybe it'd be different if I was 20 years younger :icon_twisted: ).

As for a prerunner looking goofy on the 'Con, I guess it's all a matter of perception. I wouldn't really see it as goofy myself, although some probably see my TTB as "goofy", that is until I idle up over that rock they kept slipping on in their Jeep lol.

 

[philzilla]

They fly pretty straight to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnHkMuB1xf8

yep, it does. But anything can do just 1 jump, pre runners need to be able to handle constant jump and varying terrain- whoops. When you have a shorter wheel base it feels as if you rock forward and back more than you would with a longer wheel base vehicles, and a pre runner B2 is more prone to flipping if your sliding around a corner.

Are you wanting just the pre-runner look and not make it functional or an actual long travel project?

 

[The Jester Race]

Are you wanting just the pre-runner look and not make it functional or an actual long travel project?

Ya I want it functional, not looking to build a full blown trophy truck out of it, but I would like it to be able to handle jumps and high speed trail runs without destroying my suspension. I think it would be dumb to build something just for the looks and not have it atleast somewhat functional. Kinda like stick on hood scoops.

What do you mean "Bro"ed out? Never heard that term before.

-Jester

 

[philzilla]

You said earlier you wanted to go with D44 tbb here is a link http://autofab.com/mdl_44_ranger.htm they make pretty good stuff. Your in northern california lets see. Well i think a video would best describe bros. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqLS7ZJedzA
In these parts a bro truck is considered prerunners that have flared out fenders , some kind of lift in the front and stock in the rear.

 

[4x4junkie]

I've never understood what purpose the saggy rear thing serves... seems to me all that does is make it harder to see over the hood :icon_confused:

 

[The Jester Race]

You said earlier you wanted to go with D44 tbb here is a link http://autofab.com/mdl_44_ranger.htm they make pretty good stuff. Your in northern california lets see. Well i think a video would best describe bros. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqLS7ZJedzA
In these parts a bro truck is considered prerunners that have flared out fenders , some kind of lift in the front and stock in the rear.

Ya we dont get that particular breed of deuchbag this far north, though we do have flatbills and NorCal stars(nautical stars). Iv got some friends that kinda fit the description of a bro cept they actually race motocross and wheel their trucks, and theyre not total deuchbags.

So are you saying just because a truck has flared out fenders its "bro"d out? Im just trying to get an understanding of where your coming from.

Thanks for that link to autofab, though I still dont know if Im gonna run the 44 or the 35.

I get my 4.0 tomorrow.

-Jester

 

[philzilla]

Its just the concept of puting things on your car that doesnt need it. Like making a pre runner bumper with just 1 tube, just you can have the look of a pre-runner. Or putting fender flares on when you don't have any bit wider tires or have it long traveled.

 

[The Jester Race]

Ok, thats what I thought you were saying, Form over Function or is it Form WITHOUT Function, in other words Disco

-Jester

 

[Dzrtcj7]

I'd say go for both. I've thought the concept over a lot because I DO both. I am going to lean toward an explorer because my needs are going to be biased more toward the desert. But, if I still has my BII, I would run cut and turned D35, keep it close to stock width (the BIG advantage of the bii is width and turning radius). I would cage it front to back, run dzues fastened glass fenders, so I could pull it off really easy. I would set up the suspension more toward the dezert, stiffer front coils (or coil overs), quad remote resi's on the front, deaver 10-12 leaf packs on the rear with 3" remote resi's up through the cargo floor. I would run a detroit locker in the rear and an ARB up front.

The reason toward setting up the suspension for the desert instead of super flexy is I KNOW a BII with stockish travel and lockers can wheel 99% of the toughest trails in WA without getting a tug.

Try and keep front getting the nose too heavy with a crazy front bumper if you are going to fly it at all. Mount your spare tire(s) as far back as you can.

The D35 front will be okay as long as you don't get too crazy with tires. The right 33" tire will perform well in both the desert and on the trails ...

BTW ... I LOVE the pics of the bronco's with the old Rough Riders Ford paint scheme. If I had really built mine I would have painted it the old Stroppe color scheme