89 bronco II wont start

[awagner]

Hello...Banging my head. I have a 89 bronco II 2.9 l v6 that wont start. i have fuel at the fuel bar, have spark on all 6 plugs and it cranks fine but wont fire. any help would be greatly appriciated. ran fine yesterday.
note... spark is not blue. from the coil even it is orangeish

 

[BroncoDan]

What the hell is a fuel bar? Is that one of those flux capacitor things that sits in the trunk???? :icon_rofl:

Had to do it...

 

[adsm08]

Fuel bar = Fuel Rail.

Ok, so you have spark, but weak spark. Go get a TFI module and a coil. I recommend springing for the OEM parts. They cost a little bit more, but will last you years longer than after-market parts.

Important note: An old coil can kill a new TFI. I've seen it before. A lot of guys try to get away with only replacing the TFI. Roughly half the time those TFI modules only live half as long as they sould.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Fuel bar = Fuel Rail.

Ok, so you have spark, but weak spark. Go get a TFI module and a coil. I recommend springing for the OEM parts. They cost a little bit more, but will last you years longer than after-market parts.

Important note: An old coil can kill a new TFI. I've seen it before. A lot of guys try to get away with only replacing the TFI. Roughly half the time those TFI modules only live half as long as they sould.

+1

I'd also check your battery condition. If it's weak, it will make a weak spark. An orangish spark is a weak spark. It should be bluish with a sharp snap to it. Just make sure your fingers are not too close to a good hot spark... that frickin hurts!!!!

Also, if you do replace the TFI, put some thought into doing a TFI relocation. Ford had a repair kit out at one time for 'em that relocated them to the inner fender, but those kits were mostly used on fullsize trucks. And whatever you do, remember that you HAVE to put that grease stuff on the back of the TFI.

 

[awagner]

Where is the tfi located when on distributor? Do you have to pull the distributor to get to it? I saw a post to test it.....if it tests good whats next?

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Where is the tfi located when on distributor? Do you have to pull the distributor to get to it? I saw a post to test it.....if it tests good whats next?

The TFI module is typically a grey colored item on the back of the distributor that has an electrical plug on it. I've never had to remove the distributor to work on one, but it does typically require a special tool to remove (thin wall socket or sometimes a small torx bit). There's a bit of grease/paste between the back of the TFI module and the distributor, it's a sort of heat transfer paste IIRC. In a pinch you might be able to use dielectric grease. A new TFI module should come with a small tube of the proper stuff.

If that's good, I'd look at the battery condition an the coil. I'd also check ground wires, the one on my choptop gave me fits for awhile, it looked like it was ok but when I flexed it partway down I could hear it crunching - which means it corroded inside the casing. At the time I had the truck at a junkyard where I was friends with the owner (he let me use their shop and lifts), so I just went junkyard diving for a newer cable. When I found what would work, I just replaced my cable, cleaned the ends, used liquid electrical tape, heat shrink tubing and dielectric grease for making the terminations. But I'm anal about doing electrical work correctly, lol.

 

[awagner]

i just ran the eec test with a volt meter and get code 4-5 would this indicate i should pursue the tfi ave?

 

[BroncoDan]

i just ran the eec test with a volt meter and get code 4-5 would this indicate i should pursue the tfi ave?

It means you should burn that thing to the ground...

*side note*

For those of you who don't know... I know this guy, as in we have drank a beer or two together... The BII he is having problems with use to be mine... I've been helping him with this problem... Didn't want people thinking I was harrassing him for no good reason... :icon_cheers:

Code 45 indicates a problem with the TAD Thermactor Air Diverter. Anybody have a picture of a TAD? :icon_confused:

 

[BroncoDan]

After using my friend's volt meter I'm not sure I trust that thing... probably has a weak battery and don't know that I trust the codes he is getting.

Here is what we do know.

We have fuel at the FUEL BAR aka fuel rails. We have spark at all plugs. All vacuum lines seem to be in good condition. But with all this we get no sign of life. The engine will crank all day long but never tries to actually start. The only two things left that I would think would cause a complete no start are compression and computer. Is there any way of testing the computer?

 

[awagner]

use you other b2 computer and see how she acts bronco daniela

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

I will say one thing....

I went through a problem with my choptop when I replaced the motor with a junkyard one. I spent a couple weeks bashing my head against the wall trying to get it to start. I had good compression, I had strong spark, I had air and I had fuel. By rights it should have started like that, but no. I replaced the distributor, replaced the plug wires, coil, battery cables, spark plugs, plug wires, re-set the distributor several times, swapped the intake and fuel rails from my old 2.9, checked fuses, checked relays, checked fuseable links, replaced the TFI, and did a ton of other things.

I was totally frustrated and despite several experienced people trying to help me, it was still a no-go. So when I ran the battery down for the umpteenth time, instead of pulling it and sticking it on the charger and going for a beer or three, I pulled my Ranger next to it, left it idle, and hooked up the jumper cables. Let it sit a min and tried the BII. Lo an behold.... it fired right up. Never had another problem since.

Don't ask me to explain what happened. About all I can think of is maybe the extra shot of juice from a running motor with a good battery and alt was enough to do something. I'm not sure that hooking a stock BII up would do the same sort of thing though, my Ranger has a 130 amp alt (or somewhere thereabouts) and the stock BII alt is only something like 85 amps.

 

[BroncoDan]

use you other b2 computer and see how she acts bronco daniela

Well let me just run down the street and pick that up... :icon_twisted:

Don't think they are wired the same...

 

[BroncoDan]

Hey Wagner... wanna kill a beer or 6 while the F150 tries to boost her?

 

[BroncoDan]

I think that is called "The Frankenstein Effect"

That's the boat we are in right now without all the swapping. Everything seems to be working just fine... and yet no joy.

I will say one thing....

I went through a problem with my choptop when I replaced the motor with a junkyard one. I spent a couple weeks bashing my head against the wall trying to get it to start. I had good compression, I had strong spark, I had air and I had fuel. By rights it should have started like that, but no. I replaced the distributor, replaced the plug wires, coil, battery cables, spark plugs, plug wires, re-set the distributor several times, swapped the intake and fuel rails from my old 2.9, checked fuses, checked relays, checked fuseable links, replaced the TFI, and did a ton of other things.

I was totally frustrated and despite several experienced people trying to help me, it was still a no-go. So when I ran the battery down for the umpteenth time, instead of pulling it and sticking it on the charger and going for a beer or three, I pulled my Ranger next to it, left it idle, and hooked up the jumper cables. Let it sit a min and tried the BII. Lo an behold.... it fired right up. Never had another problem since.

Don't ask me to explain what happened. About all I can think of is maybe the extra shot of juice from a running motor with a good battery and alt was enough to do something. I'm not sure that hooking a stock BII up would do the same sort of thing though, my Ranger has a 130 amp alt (or somewhere thereabouts) and the stock BII alt is only something like 85 amps.

 

[adsm08]

My money is still on coil/TFI.

I've seen them give off yellow/orange spark and have a no start. The problem is that when it's cold that weak spark isn't enough to get the fuel to light off.

Roughly 90% of the no-starts I've seen on the TFI systems were TFI module related. The others were mostly fuel related, bad pump, bad relay, etc. I've only seen 1 bad ECM, and I cooked it myself by mistake. They can go bad if you get a water leak in that area though.

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Well let me just run down the street and pick that up... :icon_twisted:

Don't think they are wired the same...

I have a computer from an '86 auto trans 4x4 BII in my '89 manual trans BII that was a 2wd.

Hey Wagner... wanna kill a beer or 6 while the F150 tries to boost her?

:icon_rofl:

I think that is called "The Frankenstein Effect"

That's the boat we are in right now without all the swapping. Everything seems to be working just fine... and yet no joy.

lol, didn't think of that one...

I swapped motors only because every time I put a good set of heads on the 2.9 that was in the truck, it would crack one or both in short order. The bottom of the motor seemed quite sound, but I had used up all of my spare heads and even bought a pair of used heads. Then I picked up a 2.9 out of a BII that had gotten into an argument with a pine tree and lost. Had to swap out a cracked exhaust manifold and the water pump, but other than that it was in great shape so I figured I'd just drop the whole thing in.

Part of me wishes I would have just loaded that motor on my Ranger and brought it home. At the time I had the BII sitting in a junkyard where I was friends with the owner and naturally there were quite a few OHV 4.0L motors handy... I could have just done the swap....

 

[BroncoDan]

Will a TFI module from an 88 work on an 89? I'm thinking yes...

Fuel pressure is solid.

It does have the usual waterfall, I mean leak, around the drip rails. There doesn't seem to be any corrosion in the area but we did get a good rain right before things started going south.

My money is still on coil/TFI.

I've seen them give off yellow/orange spark and have a no start. The problem is that when it's cold that weak spark isn't enough to get the fuel to light off.

Roughly 90% of the no-starts I've seen on the TFI systems were TFI module related. The others were mostly fuel related, bad pump, bad relay, etc. I've only seen 1 bad ECM, and I cooked it myself by mistake. They can go bad if you get a water leak in that area though.

 

[BroncoDan]

Those trees seem to win every time.

Well if an 86 worked then an 88 should work too...

IThen I picked up a 2.9 out of a BII that had
gotten into an argument with a pine tree and lost.

 

[awagner]

there is a water leak in that area.....but i was hoping for cheap fix lol.
BroncDan, are you feeling up to walking to home while they sit?

 

[lil_Blue_Ford]

Will a TFI module from an 88 work on an 89? I'm thinking yes...

Fuel pressure is solid.

It does have the usual waterfall, I mean leak, around the drip rails. There doesn't seem to be any corrosion in the area but we did get a good rain right before things started going south.

My choptop is not very waterproof right now... and I haven't really had a problem. Of course, I also don't have any trim around the ECU.:icon_rofl:

Those trees seem to win every time.

Well if an 86 worked then an 88 should work too...

lol, yea, most of the time they do win.

And I don't see why an 88 wouldn't work in an 89... unless the 88 is a manual trans computer and the 89 is an auto trans. An auto trans computer will work in a manual but not the other way around (and if you put an auto trans computer in a manual trans truck, the computer usually spits out a code because it can't find the trans, lol, but other than it's complaint that your trans is missing, it works fine.)

there is a water leak in that area.....but i was hoping for cheap fix lol.
BroncDan, are you feeling up to walking to home while they sit?

If its a water leak in that area on an 88, it might be leaking behind the dash... a common problem with 83-88 Rangers and Bronco IIs because they had slotted cowls which allowed leaves an crap to collect and cause rust issues.