Compatible Injectors for the 2.9?

[RyanL]

Before hijacking someone else's thread anymore, I'll start a new one. Are there many different injectors out there that will fit right into the 2.9 (and work okay) off of newer vehicles? I have an '89 that is running a little rich (especially when warmed up) and barely runs. And yes, I've replaced or at least checked out all other ignition/ fuel related components and sensors so it leaves me with leaking injectors as my problem or at the very least a main contributor. The reason why I ask what other injectors will work is because I really don't want to shell out close to 400 bucks for new 2.9 ones (probably more than that truck is worth!) and two, I really don't trust getting something so old used from a scrap yard (they'll probably be in worse condition than the ones that I have). I was buying set of XLT doors from another BII owner the other day (I have the XL and can't stand those dinky mirrors!) and he said that he had 4.6 lightening injectors installed in his. Unfortunately he had his all apart (familiar BII site) and I couldn't listen to it to see how it ran. He said that they fit right in and had just a little more output, but shouldn't be an issue. Is that true? Can the BroncoII ECMs make enough compensations for different injectors or is it only safe to run the OEM ones? Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[rusty70f100]

Stick with the stock flow rating. The computer might be able to compensate in closed loop fueling, but not in open loop. That would be off by the same amount as whatever injector you put in. If you put in slightly higher flowing ones, it would run slightly richer in open loop. Maybe if you've done mods that improve airflow that would be beneficial. Hard to say from here.

I've seen injectors go bad before, but not to that extent. Usually they'll just leak when the vehicle is off, making it a bit harder to start next time. I suppose they could fail like that though and make it run rich.

Anyway, you can get new Accel ones from Summit for about $260.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACC-150-614/

Have you tried some injector cleaner? Chevron Techron stuff seems to work well.

 

[RyanL]

Yeah, I've tried to clean them before. I filled the fuel rail with cleaner when I put new heads on it a few years back (really hasn't been ran much since then though) which I know isn't as good as pulling them all apart, but still much better than just dumping crap into the fuel tank. I found this link http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=82 which talks about "rebuilding" the stock injectors, but doesn't provide part #s or links to all the stuff. I looked around a little but all I seem to find is O-rings, but nothing like those little filters or anything. Does anyone know where to get said items? Don't tell me dealership only items either because I've tried that route a few times in the past and a lot of parts for this truck they can't even get anymore. If my best option is those Summit Racing ones, I guess I'll consider those. This BroncoII just makes me mad. I figured all that I would have to do this season to get it ready for trips to the home improvement store was some tune-up work, fluid changes, and couple other little odds and ends like the rear driveshaft and leaf springs. Instead it's turning into a money pit. I thought that I got most of the BS out the way a few years ago, but it never ends. Sorry to sound so bitter, but I had a '88 BII years ago which I put some miles on and had mostly good things to say about it. This '89 on the other hand...

 

[Hahnsb2]

It's very doubtful the injectors are the problem, let alone all of them. Putting anything other than stockers from a junkyard in is a waste of money.

 

[Chris102371]

You can get rebuilt ones on ebay for less than 100.00 for a set.

 

[jhammel85]

hmm...Did you run codes at all? I also think it'd be hard to think that all injectors are dead or stuck open at once. It could only be one. Your symptoms sound like it could be one of a million things.
1st things 1st, I'd run codes. If you need help running codes, theres more info on fordfuelinjection.com. It's easy to follow on there.

In any case, If you're looking for injectors, check holyford's parts classified here on TRS. He's selling old injectors from his old 2.9 for cheap.

Let us know what you find out!

 

[RyanL]

hmm...Did you run codes at all? I also think it'd be hard to think that all injectors are dead or stuck open at once. It could only be one. Your symptoms sound like it could be one of a million things.
1st things 1st, I'd run codes. If you need help running codes, theres more info on fordfuelinjection.com. It's easy to follow on there.

In any case, If you're looking for injectors, check holyford's parts classified here on TRS. He's selling old injectors from his old 2.9 for cheap.

Let us know what you find out!

I think that the problem is a million things! Will retrieving codes yield anything without a check engine light on? I might give that a whirl tomorrow. I did see that you could could get codes without a reader (too bad it doesn't have OBDII, I have a USB adapter for my laptop). I was under the impression that you could only do that with older GMs (paper clip method) and older Chryslers with the ignition switch. Cool to know. Sorry, I saw your post about the used injectors too late; already pulled it all apart and cleaned them up. I also pulled one of the valve covers off because it was leaking and discovered that two of the valves were way off creating the cold tapping I was experiencing. I had trouble adjusting them before (some of the lifters are crap), but what I found to be the best way (at least in my scenario) was do it all with valve covers off. Adjust them, start it up and let it run a while (made a little bit of a mess, but not too bad), shut it down, then adjust them again. I found that two of the adjusters needed to be screwed down an extra 1/4"! Anyway, I cleaned it up and put the cover back on. I went gasket less this time BTW - will see if that works out better. In theory, if a thin layer of gasket maker blows out it will create much less of a mess than a 1/4" gasket. Sorry to be all over the place tonight (thread was supposed to be about injectors). Anyway, I'll take it for a test run tomorrow since I had to let the gasket maker for the valve cover set over night anyway. Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll post back.

 

[jhammel85]

Why not just use the rubber Valve cover gaskets? Hopefully the Gasket Maker will work for you.

The Codes should still show up in the EEC. On mine (an 87) there's no check engine light at all so the only way to know is to check.
Hopefully something pops up but it sounds like your on the right track!

 

[RyanL]

Why not just use the rubber Valve cover gaskets? Hopefully the Gasket Maker will work for you.

The Codes should still show up in the EEC. On mine (an 87) there's no check engine light at all so the only way to know is to check.
Hopefully something pops up but it sounds like your on the right track!

I had rubber valve cover gaskets which I put on when I did the heads a few years back, but were starting to seep just a little in the rear on both sides. I think that gasket maker doesn't stick to rubber quite as well as it does to metal. Anyway, I had a chance to check it out early this morning and it is a little better, but still not right; runs rough/rich when warmed up still. In all my years messing with cars and trucks, I swear that it feels/sounds to me like the timing is retarded too much when I get on it, but I know that it is set right. I set it just the other day by warming it up, removing that little advancing plug from connector by distributor, putting a timing light clip on #1 wire, and setting it to 11* BTDC (the distributor moved just a little while I was tightening it down, but was close enough for me). I'm going to check my ECU for any stored issues, but does anyone know where the hell the OBD connector is on a '89?

 

[jhammel85]

It's over by the passenger side fender well where the Relays are. Should be red if it's like mine.

 

[RyanL]

It's over by the passenger side fender well where the Relays are. Should be red if it's like mine.

I looked for it for a little while this afternoon on the passenger side (both inside and under the hood), but it was cold and I was getting rained on so I said screw it. I might get a chance to check it out tomorrow. You're wiring harness I think is different than mine (I think that they changed it in '89), maybe mine is in a different location. Maybe someone with a '89 or '90 can chime in. My check engine light does work BTW (you can see it light up when you turn the ignition on), but if you think that checking it might reveal something I'm game. I'm willing to try almost anything at this point. Also, I'm looking for a connector that looks like the one in this how to: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/OBD_I.html. If it doesn't look anything like that, someone please let me know because I came across half a dozen connectors with nothing going to them. One other thing that I got around to doing which I forgot to add was that I "cleaned out" my catalytic converters, which I know wouldn't contribute to the engine running rich but maybe to they lousy idle and low end. Of course it didn't do much of anything for me. One thing which I would like to check into is my fuel pressure, but I need to get my ass some sort of fuel pressure gage. I know that a weak fuel pump shouldn't make it run rich, but maybe someone put an aftermarket one in at some point and it has too much fuel pressure. I know that the BII has a fuel pressure regulator, but I don't know how much it actually does. I'm open for any kind of ideas no matter how far out they are! Thanks.

 

[RyanL]

Well I finally got a chance to check my codes with the check engine light. The plug really was concealed in my case; it was connected to the fuse box under the hood facing upwards, but what really threw me was there was a cap on the whole thing (big connector with the single wire connector with it under one cap). Even looking right at it, it looked to me like they were just wires leaving that fuse box. Hope this helps somebody else. Anyway, the codes which I grabbed were 96 (from me pulling the fuse to replace the gas filter - which was clogged a little making my fuel pump wine slightly and when I also replaced the fuel pressure regulator), code 14 (could be a bad ignition module; maybe I relocated it too late), and code 54 for the intake air temp sensor which I checked the resistance for recently and seemed normal, but maybe I need to check the actual voltage reading. Speaking of which, I did notice that the voltage was slightly lower (maybe a .1 to .2 Volts) connecting to the sensor ground rather than the battery when I was checking out my TPS. Is that anything to be worried about? If so I guess I need to hunt to see where the ECM ground is and clean it up. Thanks again for help. Just for anyone else who is having issues lately, replace your fuel filter. It's only a $10 part and is good preventative maintenance. Mine didn't have many miles on it all, but obviously was getting all gunked up from sitting so long I suppose. It's probably due to this damn ethanol they put in the fuel lately. I know that I've had much trouble with lawn equipment in recent years which sits for several months at a time due to the ethanol.

Update: I checked the voltage for the IAT sensor and it seems normal (2.3 to 2.4 Volts), at least looking at the chart on this page: http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=29. I think that I may have set off that code (54) by cleaning out the intake/TB with that intake cleaner the other day. Maybe it shorted out the sensor or something. Anyway, I reset the ECU and going to check it out tomorrow after I do some driving tonight (I have about a 25 mile so something should come up).

 

[RyanL]

I just had a chance to look into the TFI ignition module a little and it seems to check out. Going by the test chart on the bottom of this page: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/TFI_Diagnostic.html, the only resistance reading which seemed to be off more than 5% was the one for hall effect power to power run in which measured 87.3 Ohms (supposed to be 100 Ohms). At the very bottom of the chart there are resistances for the hall effect sensor in the distributor. I'm not getting any readings for those (base of the distributor to the 3 connections on the distributor). I doubt that is right or the truck wouldn't run at all (or at least I think). Is there a better test I could preform for that? My 22K Ohm resistor mounted on the driver's side firewall checks out at 21.9K. Maybe my TFI only acts up once it gets warmed up, I don't know. Has anyone else had a TFI which "checked out", but really was bad?

 

[holyford86]

I just had a chance to look into the TFI ignition module a little and it seems to check out. Going by the test chart on the bottom of this page: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/TFI_Diagnostic.html, the only resistance reading which seemed to be off more than 5% was the one for hall effect power to power run in which measured 87.3 Ohms (supposed to be 100 Ohms). At the very bottom of the chart there are resistances for the hall effect sensor in the distributor. I'm not getting any readings for those (base of the distributor to the 3 connections on the distributor). I doubt that is right or the truck wouldn't run at all (or at least I think). Is there a better test I could preform for that? My 22K Ohm resistor mounted on the driver's side firewall checks out at 21.9K. Maybe my TFI only acts up once it gets warmed up, I don't know. Has anyone else had a TFI which "checked out", but really was bad?

Try tossing the tfi on a cookie sheet and put it in the oven on very low heat (about 150-160*) and check your resistance values again while it's warm, if your values are off then your tfi is junk.

 

[RyanL]

Try tossing the tfi on a cookie sheet and put it in the oven on very low heat (about 150-160*) and check your resistance values again while it's warm, if your values are off then your tfi is junk.

Too late. Already replaced it. It helped quite a bit. The engine is much smoother throughout the entire RPM range (especially low end which is where I was having problems). The exhaust looks and smells much more reasonable (I guess it really wasn't running rich, but more or less missing here and there pumping unburnt fuel out of the exhaust. My guess is that if everything else wasn't in good working order this TFI module would've really put a hurting on the bronco II. I'm still a little disappointed with the power output (seems to be lacking a little in the upper RPMs), but at least it's drivable now. I keep thinking in the back of my mind that the lifters are making me loose a bit of power (not letting the valves close fully causing a little loss of compression and or valves not opening all the way up). I already know that I have 3 or 4 very spongy lifters, is there any way to get them out without removing the heads? If I had known that they were shot when I replaced the heads, I would've done them then. Oh well. Sorry for making you guys read my really long posts!