A/C and R-12 substitutes?

[Charles]

'87 Bronco II, 2.9L....

The A/C seems to work, blows out cool air, not cold. compressor kicks on and off. What do I need to check to see if it's low and has anyone had any success with R-12 substitutes?

 

[gribly]

Has it been used much recently? Unused a/c systems can allow the refrigerant to migrate into the oil. Use the a/c every time you drive for a while and see if the performance improves. Sometimes when a car sits the a/c will appear to not work for the first few days.

To check it you need gauges.

 

[Crippled Eagle]

I've used a product called Freeze12 with success. My van had an intact R12 system in it and I recharged it with that product. That was about 3 years ago and I've never had to recharge it since. It seemed to work as good as R12. Seems as if it sold for about $12 a can.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I've used a product called Freeze12 with success. My van had an intact R12 system in it and I recharged it with that product. That was about 3 years ago and I've never had to recharge it since. It seemed to work as good as R12. Seems as if it sold for about $12 a can.

+1, good stuff.

 

[4.0B2]

but- in the long run its easier just to convert it to 134a now.. save yourself the trouble. easier to find, cheaper, modern gauges fit it, and so on..

 

[superds]

I converted to R134a in my '90 Ranger about four years ago. It's a fairly painless procedure, I bought a conversion kit at the store and followed the included DVD instuctions. It cools pretty well now, much better than when it had needed a recharge and was still R12. It probably won't cool quite as well as if you put R12 in though, since R12 is a more efficient refrigerant.

 

[BRUTUS_T_HOG]

a full R-134a retrofit is the way to go. the stuff is cheap and clean. and gives similar performance to R-12. R-12 is of course better and gets colder.

half ass it and you'll destroy and clog the whole system.

to avoid the hassle you can just get the system leak checked and recharged with R-12

 

[rusty70f100]

+1 to the full R134a retrofit.

The proper way to do it is to have the system drained, then pull it apart and put in new o-rings, and a new accumulator / receiver / drier. You can flush each part individually too, except the compressor. Also look very closely at the hoses. Any that have dirty grease like goo near the connections or where the rubber meets the metal, should be replaced because they're leaking. Also there's a different expansion tube you can get for it that will work better with R134a. It's not critical, but it helps. Put, IIRC, 2oz oil in each part, using ester oil. Then pull a vacuum on the system. The longer, the better. I only did 1 hour, but 1 day would be best. After all that, charge with R134a and enjoy your AC system.

If anyone wants to refine or correct my procedure, feel free. It's been a while.

The cheap-o retrofit might get you by for a while, but it won't work as good and you will end up right back where you're at now. I say do it right the first time.

 

[badmts]

try this

Propane is a three-carbon alkane, normally a gas, but compressible to a transportable ... times the GWP of carbon dioxide) and can serve as a functional replacement for R-12:icon_rofl:

 

[Charles]

eventually I will probably do the conversion, I just wanted to recharge it for now to get me through the summer, or see if it will actually hold a charge and for how long. I've really got quite a bit of time and money into getting this thing up and running right now, mamma's starting to frown a little so......

What I really wanted to do was put it in along with some dye to see where it leaks, but don't know anything about that or if it's even possible. I know they have a dye that can be added, just not sure how with this older system.

The full conversion would require replacing all the weak points though.....

flipping the coin and looking at mamma.....


Also, suppose to be picking up another ranger friday. That will make two rangers and one bronco 2..... here we go again!!!!

 

[4x4junkie]

a full R-134a retrofit is the way to go. the stuff is cheap and clean. and gives similar performance to R-12. R-12 is of course better and gets colder.

half ass it and you'll destroy and clog the whole system.

to avoid the hassle you can just get the system leak checked and recharged with R-12

My 1990 with R-134a conversion often gets down to about 36° at the center-right vent (it easily maintains 40° even on a hot day). I'm not sure what typical performance is on R-12 (mine was already ailing when I got it), but much colder than that, I'm thinking the evaporator could start icing up at times.
As I understand it, R-134a simply requires a slightly higher pressure on the condenser side to get the same cooling output at the evaporator as you would with R-12.

I did a complete conversion, replacing the compressor with a new Visteon OEM-type unit, changed all the hoses and the orifice tube (red), and flushed out the stock condenser & evaporator. Used 32oz of R-134a + 10oz of PAG-46 oil.
Definitely money well spent for when summertime comes around here in the desert southwest.

 

[adsm08]

My 1990 with R-134a conversion often gets down to about 36° at the center-right vent (it easily maintains 40° even on a hot day). I'm not sure what typical performance is on R-12 (mine was already ailing when I got it), but much colder than that, I'm thinking the evaporator could start icing up at times.

R-12 can easily ice the evap core. That's no good either though, since then you have no air flow, which means no cold air. :icon_rofl:

 

[4.0B2]

mine pulls down to 33 degrees F out the dash.. and its 134a. i think that's good enough lol. keeps me cool down here in the humid Mississippi summers..

r12 substitute down here right now is twice the $$ of 134a

 

[rusty70f100]

You know, there's a low pressure cutoff switch that you can adjust. Between that and varying the amount of R134a that you put in, you can pretty much set the temperature coming out of the vents.