Anyone else use propane for charging A/C

[88ranger2.3]

Is there an issue with charging an A/C system with propane. I read about it on some Mercedes website before as a R12 substitute. I have tried it on the bronco and it seems to be working pretty well. I mean instead of making a deadly gas in a wreck with a fire there would be just more fire... I understand that, but is there any issues with life of compressor or other parts? Just hoping to find someone who knows more then I do on the subject.

 

[tbirdsps]

I wouldn't do it. Just think of a small leak developing near the exhaust manifold. Propane is pretty volitile. Contained is one thing but leaking is a whole other story. I wouldn't risk burning the car to the ground to save a buck.

 

[88ranger2.3]

I wouldn't do it. Just think of a small leak developing near the exhaust manifold. Propane is pretty volitile. Contained is one thing but leaking is a whole other story. I wouldn't risk burning the car to the ground to save a buck.

True, but a small leak makes a very noticeable odor as all propane has odorant added to it. Typically you can smell a leak pretty easily as the odorant sticks to everything it seems. I am pretty well sold on the use of the propane as the refrigerant, mainly curious on how it effects the compressor. I know it was previously used for just this purpose.

And considering it takes less then 5 dollars worth of the little bottles of propane you can do it CHEAP.

 

[The purple one]

I am sure I am spelling this wrong But all I have to say is Hindenburg another exposive thing from germany.

 

[RangerSVT]

There are reasons why NO ONE has used this method, not in they're right mind anyways...Let me shed some light on the subject for you (from a Fire Chief's perspective)....
Propane expands at a ratio of 270:1 (meaning for every gallon of propane, once entered into the atmosphere you now have 270 gallons of flamable vapor). Propane can also blow up, not just vent off. When temps rise, guess what, pressures rise as well. When the pressure reaches 350 psi in an AC system, the pressure relief valve on the compressor will automatically release, venting excess pressure (ie propane) to the atmosphere. It only takes a small ignition source (or high heat, like the exhaust manifolds) to ignite propane vapors. Be smart, stay alive and don't do it. If you have, shut your truck off, come back 4 hours later when everything has cooled down and vacuum the system down clean.
SVT

 

[shane96ranger]

Be smart, stay alive and don't do it. If you have, shut your truck off, come back 4 hours later when everything has cooled down and vacuum the system down clean.
SVT

Yes, please use this info. Be sure to keep other people and pets away too.

 

[88ranger2.3]

I vacuumed my system down then added the Propane to it. Probably around 14 ounces if I had to guess. I stand behind the statement that the leak if any that would be in the system it would be quickly apparent from the rotten egg smell. In the event of a wreck I don't see much more risk then from the gas in the engine bay, or the transmission fluid that is hot and in the cooler...

R290 (propane) is a common refrigerant.

Used in a lot of applications. It is my understanding that it has very similar properties to R22. And is a common substitute for R12. Auto ignition temperature is 840 or so degrees Fahrenheit. The flammability flare limits are only from about 2 % to 10%.

Other information as I have read in other places.

- It works better than R12 so a full charge (no bubbles in the sight glass) is too much.
- When ignited, it burns, leaving some heat and CO2 behind. R12, when it burns or is heated in the presence of a fire, results in phosgene gas being released. Phosgene gas is one of the more interesting Nerve Gasses used during WWI to kill troops. This is not a plus.
- R290 is fully compatible with R12 lubricants.

Also if there were a wreck there won't be any "nerve agents" from the heating of R12...

The recommended fire fighting instructions from the MSDS for R12 is that
"Firefighters should wear self-contained, NIOSH-approved breathing apparatus for protection against possible toxic decomposition products. Proper eye and skin protection should be provided. Use water spray to keep fire-exposed containers cool."

 

[88ranger2.3]

As far as a small leak near a hot manifold. If it is a small leak and a hot manifold, chances are the engine is running. Just the fan moving air through the radiator would keep the gas levels in percentage out of the flammability levels. Not recommending it for anyone to do. I was just asking if anyone else is doing it, and if anyone knows the possible implications of its use on the compressor itself. I don't think there is much to expect different then any other compressible medium going through the compressor, but was hoping for some input from someone with more knowledge then myself.

 

[RangerSVT]

R290 is a type of propane used as a refrigerant. It is not the same type of propane found in common outdoor grilles...If you want to use R290, make sure you obtain it from the correct sources, not your local gas grille on the back deck :icon_thumby:
SVT

 

[88ranger2.3]

Ok. I am not trying to argue that point. Was just looking for some other input other then not do it... Thanks though.

 

[kcm1582]

The use of flammable refrigerants in vehicles is illegal in many states. The pressures that are attained in an a/c system combined with the heat under the hood of a car can cause even a small leak that would normally dissipate into the air to explode.

 

[shane96ranger]

Also your statements about R-12 are why the industry has moved to R-134A.

 

[Tominator]

Also your statements about R-12 are why the industry has moved to R-134A.

That's what you've been taught but far from the
truth.

Dow-Corning had the patent for R-12. They made up the storys about ozone holes etc so as to outlaw it's use. Guess who owned the patent for R12's replacement?:icon_confused:

Every gas suitable to be used as refrigerant is flammable to some degree.

The reason that is against federal law to use an unapproved gas has more to do with the contamination of the service equipment that any other factor.

 

[sblake01]

I am sure I am spelling this wrong But all I have to say is Hindenburg another exposive thing from germany.

Not really sure what the Hindenburg disaster have to do with using propane in a automotive air conditioning system especially since the the actual cause of that fire remains unknown but, safe to say, propane was not involved. There are propane based R12 replacements such as Redtek 12 and Duracool. I've not used them but I've spoken to other technicians who have and I've never heard of them being the cause of any type of automotive explosion or fire.

 

[sblake01]

Also your statements about R-12 are why the industry has moved to R-134A.

And they're getting ready to move from R-134a to HFO-1234yf for the same reasons. (So they say....

)

 

[88ranger2.3]

Finally some alternative posts other then don't do it... glad to hear from more people.

 

[killj0y]

I'm just curious why you would want too rather then retrofit, Dunno where you live but here in Texas a 12 oz can of r134a is like 9 bucks, and can be bought from any autoparts store, wal-mart, dollar general, and tons of other places. Just makes more sense to use whats commonly available, besides a few years down the road that propane refrigerant might become more rare the way r12 is now who knows...

 

[88ranger2.3]

Ok. Here is my usage and explanation. I have had 2 vehicles I maintained with propane. Both have functioned excellently.. for my beater of vehicles where when ppurchased it is assumed the a/c wont work, I refuse to pay someone to check it or fill em. I also feel the coleman fuel propane for camping is good enough for these systems as if it doesn't work I am not out anything. The plan all along is to eventually dual fuel the bronco on propane so I will already will have propane on board. So why not. If it leaks slow over winter so what. A quick fill and$ 2.50 later and I have ice cold a/c. I don't see the one pounder bottles going anywhere, but I could fill it out of bbq tank or my 500 gal lp tank for my house. I plan to refill the drive tanks as well so no big deal. I don't recommend anyone doing this, but it can be done regardless of what anyone else says. For me it is a simple decision.

 

[Explorin94]

Post some information about this. I am interested. I have an 85 Mustang GT and it is still the R12 system. I refuse to convert it over (show reasons). Once the gages are hooked up what fitting is used for filling the system from the propane bottle?

 

[RangerSVT]

You go ahead and do that, and I'll be sure one of my fire trucks will gladly show you how we do things :icon_thumby:

Explorin, you can convert the system over (all it is are two nozzles that thread onto the factory fill valves) Once filled, you can remove the adapters to return it to original looks, but with the newer freon system...
SVT